Report on Harvard Info Session Sunday 28 September 2008

<p>This is a report on the Harvard Information Session on Sunday 28 September 2008 at Edina High School in Minnesota. My wife, son, and I attended this session, although I arrived late and my wife had to leave early because of other appointments. The very first regional college information session I ever attended was Harvard's session at Southwest High School in Minneapolis in October 2003. My son and I were invited to that session, back when my son was in sixth grade, when we visited the Harvard booth at the Minnesota National College Fair that year. I was surprised to see Harvard running a booth at that fair, and told the two young men in the booth so, and they replied that Harvard has a booth at the Minnesota National College Fair every year. (That appears to be Harvard's routine practice here in Minnesota, but most other National College Fair events don't have a Harvard representative.) Both the men in the booth were very polite to me and my son, who was then quite young and looked quite young, and when they learned that my son was in an accelerated math program at the University of Minnesota, they invited us to the Harvard information session, which that year was at Southwest High School. In those days I was well aware that colleges visit college fairs and make individual visits to high schools, but when I attended the Harvard information session in 2003, that was a new and fresh experience for me, an evening chock full of information about Harvard. For the next year, I thought about Harvard a LOT, and I realized by the 2004-2005 school year that it was important that I learn about other colleges so that I didn't filter all my thinking about colleges through the experience of the Harvard information session only. So in the fall of 2004, I learned how to do Web searches to find other regional college information sessions, and since then I have attended a few of those every year, put on by most of the colleges that travel to Minnesota. </p>

<p>My wife and son tell me that the Harvard information session this year began with an introduction saying that the Harvard-Radcliffe Alumni Club of Minnesota has 400 members. After that the meeting, just like five years ago, began with a video featuring alumni and current students and campus scenes of Harvard, and my son says this year's video had some different content from the one five years ago. The video showed athletics, Yo-yo Ma (who said he felt everyone was smarter than he was at Harvard), historical scenes such as FDR's sink, and MANY extracurricular activities. The video ended with someone reminding students to just apply. </p>

<p>The meeting proper began with admission officer Martha ("Marcy") Homer describing Harvard as a liberal arts school with excellent engineering. There are no undergraduate professional programs. This is an exciting time to go to Harvard. There is a new president of Harvard University, a Civil War historian, and changes in concept, with lots of new initiatives and a renewal of the undergraduate program. Harvard College is changing its school year schedule to start the day after Labor Day. Typically students take four courses each semester. The new innovation will be in general education, with students taking half their courses in their major, one-fourth of their courses in general education, and one-fourth elective courses. The focus of the general education courses will be the modern world, with integration of knowledge. Arts will be integrated with literature and the sciences will be integrated. The initiative will improve pedagogy. Science classes will be very lab-based. There will be summer lab opportunities too. Professors are available to students for undergraduate research. </p>

<p>[I came into the meeting at about this point.] </p>

<p>The undergraduate house system is wonderful. The best thing about Harvard is the other students there. We don't bring students to Harvard to hold their hands. Take initiative to ask help from your proctor [a Harvard staff member who advises undergraduate students through their houses]. </p>

<p>The financial aid budget has gone up 130 percent in the last five years. It covers families of incomes up to $180,000 per year with standard assets. The expected family contribution has been cut in half for the upper middle class; for families with incomes below $60,000 there is no expected family contribution. We hope to make offers that equal the cost of attending state flagship universities and offer to all an equal chance to attend Harvard. </p>

<p>It's still very difficult to get in. Because Harvard College is residential, there is a strict limit on the number of students admitted. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply. </p>

<p>There is a new dean of Harvard College, Evelynn Hammonds, a historian of science. We are still woefully short of female full professors; there are more of those among the younger faculty. We have been working on this for a long time. </p>

<p>The process of renovating the houses has begun, to enhance the life of the students. They will be fitted with geothermal heat, as part of a big green push at the college, which also includes recycling. </p>

<p>Ms. Homer asked how many students had looked at the Common Application already, and most raised their hands. Harvard's application is the Common Application or Universal College Application, and it is due on a single deadline of January 1st. Harvard has dropped its early action program. We have more financial aid, but early applicants were wealthy and sophisticated about the application process compared to regular decision applicants. We don't have an early program anymore, but we appreciate early contact information for interviews. Start the process by sending in contact information to set up an interview. The interviewer is your advocate. </p>

<p>We read applications in the order in which they are received beginning on the 1st of December. The earlier 250 applications are more exciting to read than the later 1,000. [There were laughs from the audience.] Get to your application as soon as possible. </p>

<p>The most important selection factor in admissions is high school courses and grades. Take good, tough courses. Challenge yourself. We can tell if you're not challenging yourself. Take solid academic courses, and take what's best for you. We want you to study what you want to study, but we need to see good grades. </p>

<p>There are a lot of students with A's, and test scores help us distinguish among them. Standardized tests are comparison tools. The better predictors are SAT II Subject Tests and AP tests. They are more important than the SAT I or the ACT. You may have read that colleges are expressing doubt about standardized tests, but I'll give you a clue: We won't be cutting back on tests. We might require five SAT II tests. Those are less coachable than the SAT I. Working hard as a student is more important than taking tests. </p>

<p>It's always nice to read a well-crafted application essay. Write about what is important to you. Give yourself at least a week to write and rewrite your essay. </p>

<p>The teacher and counselor recommendations are important. Someone who has worked with more than just as a classroom teacher is great. We're looking for students who have contributed to class and asked questions. </p>

<p>The alumni interview will last from a half hour to an hour. Be prepared to talk about something of interest. You might mention, for example, a summer experience. Talk about its effect on you rather than about the event. Or you could talk about a book, or why you do what you do in school. </p>

<p>You figure out who you are in senior year, and that's great whether you get into your first choice college or not. Look at the exciting side rather than the drudgery side of applying to college. Keep an open mind. </p>

<p>Then Ms. Homer took questions from the audience. [My wife left the meeting at this point, to pick up my younger son from his soccer game nearby.] </p>

<p>Parent Q: Can we send in contact information by sending in the first four pages of the Common Application? </p>

<p>A: Yes, you can send it in on paper or online. Once the initial pages are in, you'll get an I.D. number. The booklet [the Harvard viewbook, passed out at this meeting] has good information about this. It also has information about class sizes, which are skewed to the small. The Questions and Answers section at the end of the [viewbook] is good. </p>

<p>Parent Q: Are students encouraged to take internships? </p>

<p>A: "Internship" is a funny term, especially in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where there are many work opportunities for students. There is no credit for internships, but we pay students well for on-campus jobs. </p>

<p>There are tons of research opportunities at Harvard and also in Cambridge. </p>

<p>Student Q: Does taking Postsecondary Enrollment Options [the Minnesota dual-credit program] courses get a student course credit at Harvard? </p>

<p>A: Not exactly. You still have to take four courses per semester at Harvard. You take placement exams. The best placement exam is in math. You can start with higher courses. </p>

<p>Student Q: What is important to Harvard this year? Is it better for graduate students than for undergraduates? </p>

<p>A: The heart and soul of Harvard is the College, as anyone who has been there knows. You can take graduate courses as an undergraduate. It is NOT TRUE that the graduate schools overshadow the College. </p>

<p>Important this year is the change in the curriculum. The new core has eight categories: Aesthetic and Interpretive Understanding (formerly literature and arts), Culture and Belief, Empirical Reasoning, Ethical Reasoning, Science of Living Systems, Science of the Physical Universe, Societies of the World, The United States in the World. </p>

<p>Student Q: What needs does Harvard have that it meets as it recruits students? </p>

<p>A: For all students to meet all kinds of people. That ensures a good education for everyone. </p>

<p>Student Q: As Harvard increases socioeconomic diversity, how does that impact the admission process. </p>

<p>A: All things being equal, if there are two students, the tie goes to the poorer kid, but the class is big enough for lots of kinds of students. </p>

<p>A student from a good high school and affluent family will probably do fine anywhere; the first-generation immigrant will find that Harvard has really made a difference. </p>

<p>Students who have self-confidence to find their place and state their point of view will do well. For example, an athlete is somone who knows about practicing for a long time. Similarly a musician has worked a long time to develop talent. </p>

<p>Our efforts at economic diversity are to make everyone feel they have a chance to apply. </p>

<p>Student Q: How many core classes do students take per semester? </p>

<p>A: You have to take eight core classes in all, so about one per semester. </p>

<p>Student Q: What courses should I take in high school? </p>

<p>A: Five per semester is good. Four years of English. Four years of math. Three or four years of history or government. Four years of foreign language. Science every year. </p>

<p>Don't take a light program senior year. </p>

<p>Student Q: How many students are admitted from Minnesota? </p>

<p>A: There are 22 to 30 students admitted per year from Minnesota, with a high yield. The Minnesota Club [the Harvard-Radcliffe Association of Minnesota?] does wonderful things to reach out to students. </p>

<p>Alumnus [Cliff] comment: Marcy, may I say that there will be a reception by the local alumni for applicants? </p>

<p>A: Yes, that's an event organized locally. </p>

<p>Student Q: Are there opportunities for study abroad? </p>

<p>A: We have a lot of study abroad. We have no Harvard branches abroad. Financial aid for study abroad is all need-based. </p>

<p>But we have fewer students go abroad than many colleges. So much is going on on campus. But we believe everyone should have foreign experience at college age. </p>

<p>Scores of 5 on certain AP tests can get you advanced standing, so you could take a year abroad. </p>

<p>Student Q: Is there financial aid for summer study abroad? </p>

<p>A: That's not the same as school-year financial aid, but grant money is available for summer study abroad. </p>

<p>Student Q: Is there advanced standing for IB test scores? </p>

<p>A: Yes, that is described in the [viewbook, on page 34]. </p>

<p>Student Q: How easy is it to defer enrollment? </p>

<p>A: That's offered with the offer of admission. No one regrets taking a year off. </p>

<p>Student Q: Do you have a Greek system? </p>

<p>A: No, we don't. We have a house system. It's not at all like the U of Minnesota. Your house is your home base. </p>

<p>There are 6,550 undergraduates, so it's not as big as the U. </p>

<p>Student Q: Can an essay be too long? </p>

<p>A: It tells us you haven't focused enough, or haven't read the directions enough. Two typed pages are fine; three are borderline. </p>

<p>Parent Q: How many applications did you read last year? </p>

<p>A: About 1,200 last year. But I enjoy the last 250 less than the first 250, unless something really sings out. If someone wants to be a writer, and sends in a writing sample, I send it to an English professor; we have a lot of faculty readers. </p>

<p>Student Q: What opportunities are there to be involved in music? </p>

<p>A: About one half of all students are involved in music. The department is theoretically focused. We have way more musicians than music majors. </p>

<p>Attach a CD to your application if you are good in music; put your best performances first on the CD. </p>

<p>If you know you are pretty good at something, send in a supplement. </p>

<p>Student Q: What about the Harvard-New England Conservatory dual curriculum? </p>

<p>A: You have to be admitted to both schools. It's a very small program. It's fairly new. </p>

<p>Student Q: Can I take classes at MIT? </p>

<p>A: Yes, but there are more the other way around. The new schedule will help with cross-registration. The School of Engineering and Applied Sciences is very individualized; there's not much need to take MIT courses anymore. </p>

<p>Student Q: How common and difficult is double-majoring? Can I study accounting and finance and also major in pre-med? </p>

<p>A: You have a concentration, and you can have a secondary field. Most commonly blended concentrations are already concentration fields. We also have a language citation. It's more common than it used to be. </p>

<p>We don't have accounting or finance as concentrations at Harvard. [My son and I anticipated this answer to this Frequently Asked Question.] You can major in economics and take the courses that are required for admission to medical school. </p>

<p>An alumni representative then noted that there are just under 100 alumni interviewers in Minnesota. </p>

<p>After the meeting was dismissed, my son and I talked to two alumni interviewers. One was a man younger than I, who had studied computer science (then applied mathematics) at Harvard. I mentioned to him that my family is a homeschooling family and that I try to tell other homeschooling families about college information sessions. He asked for my business card so that he could make sure that I got the word out. He noted that the auditorium where the Harvard information session was held this year could hold 600 people, so there was room for more than the perhaps 100 people who attended. </p>

<p>Another alumnus, the man Cliff who had earlier mentioned the alumni reception for students in town, also came over to say hello as we were leaving the auditorium. He saw my son's Ross Mathematics Program T-shirt and began discussing mathematics with him, posing a problem to my son. Sure enough, as we left the auditorium to drive back to my son's dorm at the University of Minnesota, my son was busy with his notebook trying to find a generalized solution to the problem. We both thought the meeting was very informative and it was good to see the intellectual curiosity of the alumni who were there. </p>

<p>The Harvard meeting I attended five years ago, as mentioned above, was the first regional college information session I ever attended anywhere, and it sparked my interest in telling other parents about information meetings by other colleges. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/530012-fall-2008-events-where-students-can-meet-admission-officers.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/530012-fall-2008-events-where-students-can-meet-admission-officers.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Since then we've been to a lot of other college meetings, but each year I like to check Harvard's Web resource about college information sessions </p>

<p>Harvard</a> College Admissions Office: Harvard in Your Hometown </p>

<p>to see what the schedule is for meetings in my town.</p>

<p>*The better predictors are SAT II Subject Tests and AP tests. They are more important than the SAT I or the ACT. You may have read that colleges are expressing doubt about standardized tests, but I’ll give you a clue: We won’t be cutting back on tests. We might require five SAT II tests. Those are less coachable than the SAT I. Working hard as a student is more important than taking tests. *</p>

<p>This stood out the most to me from that. I didn’t realize how much emphasis Harvard put on the SATII’s. Thanks for posting.</p>

<p>Yes, I tried to take especially careful notes right then, because that issue is currently in the news. Here’s an earlier journalistic quotation from the dean of admissions and financial aid at Harvard, from the New York Times: "Although coaching would no doubt continue if subject tests replaced the SAT, at least students would be focused on content as much as test-taking strategies, Mr. Murray said. There would also be pressure to improve local high school curriculums so that students were prepared, he wrote.</p>

<p>“These arguments make sense to Mr. Fitzsimmons [dean of admission at Harvard], who said, ‘People are going to prepare anyway, so they might as well study chemistry or biology.’ He added that ‘the idea of putting more emphasis on the subject tests is of great interest’ to his group.” </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/education/19sat.html?pagewanted=print[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/education/19sat.html?pagewanted=print&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Interesting to read! Thank you! Unfortunately Harvard never comes to my country (neither do the other Ivies).. I didn’t know about the strong emphasis on the subject tests either!
I think I’ll be taking five subject tests instead of just the plain old 3 then. (I’m not a big SAT expert, so do you all reckon Biology, Maths II, Latin, German and World history will be a good combination?) </p>

<p>OP: Good luck to your son btw! I hope he gets in! But he seems a real Maths-genius, so I reckon he will! </p>

<p>(Sorry, quite a personal question but why did you chose for home schooling? No good schools in your area or something? I was just wondering, because it is very uncommon for people in my country to do be home-schooled, but I keep stumbling upon it in the adm. process (like special sections on forms etc. )</p>

<p>In answer to the question about why I chose homeschooling, it’s because of childhood experiences I had. An assistant principal of my junior high in ninth grade in the 1970s recommended that I read John Holt’s book [How</a> Children Fail](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Children-Fail-Classics-Child-Development/dp/0201484021/]How”>http://www.amazon.com/Children-Fail-Classics-Child-Development/dp/0201484021/), and that’s what got me started on reading radical critiques of the school system. At the time I began reading Holt, Holt had never heard of homeschooling, I think, and I was still about a year away from first hearing about it. By the time I finished college in the 1980s, I had heard about homeschooling, but hadn’t met any alumni. By the 1990s my wife (who thought homeschooling was seriously weird when she first heard about it) and I had met various alumni of various forms of homeschooling, and we were comfortable with trying it for our children. Life is always about dealing with trade-offs, but we’ve been generally happy with the trade-offs we’ve encountered through the flexibility of homeschooling. </p>

<p>I was told by the same Harvard admission officer last year, by the way, that it is helpful to the Harvard admission committee to make clear why a family has chosen homeschooling. Harvard admits homeschooled young people every year these days, but not a lot. I’ve read in news reports that Harvard has one admission officer who reads all applications from homeschoolers, so I trust the admission process to be fair. I’ll have to figure out how to boil down a description of why and how we homeschool to some reasonably short number of words by next year, for sending off to the colleges my son applies to. We don’t have to write anything special for his application to our state flagship university, so that will be easy.</p>

<p>Thanks for the great information!</p>

<p>This is awesome…thanks!</p>

<p>Thank you, tokenadult. Very informative, as usual.</p>

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<p>This is new. I sat through a Harvard info session just a couple of months ago and they said nothing of the sort. I don’t remember SAT Subject tests even being mentioned.</p>

<p>I think they have modified their spiel to bring it in line with the report of the commission that Dean Fitzsimmons headed up. The real question is how much has their actual practice changed? Are Subject tests abruptly being given extra weight this year? Are they phasing it in next year?</p>

<p>In this part of the country, SAT Subject Tests have to be mentioned because many teachers and high school counselors are largely unaware of them. I think on previous occasions, Harvard and Princeton presentations have mentioned those, without responding so much to the recent news story about colleges decrying the SAT Reasoning Test.</p>

<p>I thought that the subject test comment was interesting too. My daughter, who is a current student at Harvard, took six subject tests before applying. (We used to joke that she was a professional test taker!) Who knows… maybe that helped her application.</p>

<p>The ACT is more popular in the Mid-West than the SAT I. This may have something to do with the sudden emphasis on APs & SAT IIs which more closely resemble the ACT. Although I do agree that recent statements condemning the thriving SAT I prep industry also play a part.</p>

<p>AP tests have been emphasized by Harvard for years in the sense that the Harvard Supplement to the Common Application asked for self-reported AP test scores. As of this year, the main Common Application form asks for self-reported AP (or IB) test scores from all of the tens of thousands of college applicants who apply to any of hundreds of colleges with that form.</p>

<p>Thanks, Tokenadult. Harvard has yet to come to Montana. :)</p>

<p>The Exploring College Options joint program was in Billings on September 11th. </p>

<p>[Exploring</a> College Options](<a href=“http://exploringcollegeoptions.org/]Exploring”>http://exploringcollegeoptions.org/) </p>

<p>In Minnesota, the Twin Cities gets a spring visit from Exploring College Options and Fargo-Moorhead gets an autumn visit. I think most years there is a Harvard individual meeting in the Twin Cities in the autumn, like the one I saw this year, but I haven’t always noticed it posted on Harvard’s online list of meetings. </p>

<p>[Harvard</a> College Admissions Office: Harvard in Your Hometown](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/travel_schedule/index.cgi]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/travel_schedule/index.cgi) </p>

<p>I think sometimes Harvard relies more on postal mail than on Web resources to get the word out about these meetings.</p>

<p>The part about the SAT II’s interested me too. I’ve already taken three (Math II, Physics and Lit) in October and I’m expecting 800 in math and physics (though something relatively low in literature). Does the presenters comment imply I should take some more?</p>

<p>Yeah I will have a 2400 in subject tests when I apply, plus one more most likely 750+ (Have taken Physics, Chem, Lit, and Math through October)</p>

<p>Should I take another? I was thinking about U.S. History</p>

<p>lolcats, if you already have three 800s (unless two are in math) I don’t think you need to take more, especially if you already have some nice AP scores to self-report. It worked for my kid anyway. He had four SAT subject tests (two math - three 800s and one 790), and five AP scores to self report on his application. (He took more APs senior year, but obviously didn’t have the scores yet.) They covered math, sciences and US history so he looked fairly well-rounded, even though he really isn’t.</p>

<p>I haven’t taken any AP tests (homeschooled, didn’t realize until end of Junior year I could take them), so perhaps I should take USH.</p>

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<p>I don’t think that is the implication, although my son is likely to take more than the four he has already taken. (We are a homeschooling family, and it’s fairly typical for homeschoolers aspiring to highly selective colleges to take a few more external tests than applicants from well known brick-and-mortar high schools.) I think the comment was made in the context of a lot of press reports decrying the SAT Reasoning Test and thus people in the audience possibly wondering if Harvard might go test-optional. </p>

<p>After edit: Considering the low degree of awareness of SAT Subject Tests in some parts of the country, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to hear that Harvard admits some students who didn’t gain peak scores on those tests–which Harvard does indeed require–just because the admission committee is aware that some students take those tests with inadequate preparation.</p>