Rescind acceptance for instagram picture?

[GMTplus7]

Can we all at least agree that the Civil War formally ended 150 years ago, in 1865

Lol, both PG & I are arithmetically challenged

FYI
**Godwin’s Law/b
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

…an Internet adage asserting that “as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1” —​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

[theanaconda]

@Joblue

Perhaps I am woefully under informed, but please inform me how Reconstruction so greatly punished the south. Was granting and protecting the civil rights and liberties of black people anything mord than a massive affront to “Southern pride”? Or was not allowing former confederate leaders to vote while blacks could so damaging? Or was suppressing the KKK some great crime? I am aware that there were some corrupt carpetbaggers, and believe that northern industries exploited the south for decades after the war but this doesn’t tie that directly to Federal reconstruction in my opinion. Surely Sherman razing Georgia to the ground did more damage.

I think the fact is that there has to be federal intervention in the south to protect the rights of minorities (mainly blacks), as there was in Reconstruction and then after the civil rights legislation. After courts have ruled that southern state don’t need to be so closely monitored for elections and school districting, it’s reverted back to trying to prevent minorities from voting and many school districts are now de facto racially segregated.

[soze]

Are you going to argue that Churchill is all that much more moral than hitter?

Yes I am. And I’m quite sure I’m on very solid ground making that argument.

I’m not going to re-argue WWII with someone who’s clearly a borderline holocaust denier. This has clearly gone off-topic.

[Joblue]

@theanaconda Unlike some CC regulars, I don’t enjoy delivering lectures on history and I don’t think that many here are terribly interested in the topic.Your comments suggest that your opinions on the topic are not open to additional information. If you sincerely want to know more, I can recommend the following:

http://www.amazon.com/After-Lincoln-North-Civil-Peace/dp/1451617321/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431529765&sr=1-3&keywords=civil+war+reconstruction

http://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Reunion-History-Reconstruction-Littlefield/dp/1469617579/ref=sr_1_26?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431530258&sr=1-26&keywords=civil+war+reconstruction

[austinmshauri]

ucbalumnus: Is there actually any indication that there is a college involved and that it may rescind admission, or is being pressured to rescind admission?

OP in original post: There is talk of the college these girls got into rescinding their acceptances. Do you think this is fair?

[dustypig]

It seems to be very hard for some posters to grasp that not everyone responds to that flag in the same way you do. There actually are opinions different from yours that are also valid.

JoBlue, I perfectly well understand that not everyone responds to the flag the way I do. To coin a phrase, duh. Nobody would ever display it if it evoked the same feelings in them that it does in me. What I’m saying is that there are a lot of people – I think I’m safe in saying it’s the majority of people in this country – who see flying the Confederate flag as something that at the very least is indicative of a lack of judgment. And when you fly that flag, you are accepting that people will think that, or worse, of you. This is not about how I personally feel about it. It’s about reality.

You can say whatever you like about what YOU, or people you know, think about that flag. That doesn’t change how most people think about it, and if you’re going to say that what most people think doesn’t matter to you, you’d better be sure none of them ever have the chance to influence your own life.

I am certainly no apologist for the confederacy, but the destruction of some parts of south and violence towards the civilian population was unnecessary. . . .

“The past is never dead. It’s not even past.” Faulkner

It seems appropriate to respond to this with “War is hell.”

[Bay]

Dustypig,

Go back to post #27 to read the research on how most people react to seeing the Confederate flag. The majority (even among blacks) do not react negatively to it.

[ucbalumnus]

Re: #124

Since there is no college named, nor is it mentioned who is doing such talking, the claim of a college that may rescind admission over this is just a wild rumor.

[atomom]

Is Byron Thomas, ( black student who fought to display his Confederate flag) a racist? What about Kanye West selling T-shirts with the Confederate flag on them during his 2013 tour? (Several black musicians have been wearing/selling this symbol in recent years). When asked about it, West said, “I took the Confederate flag and made it my flag. It’s MY flag now. Now what you gonna do?” (Al Sharpton called for a boycott.) West’s idea of “adopting” a symbol that some find offensive and using it himself was not new, but created controversy. Free advertising, at least, and maybe, smart psychology. (Or was it poor judgment?)
Mentioned several times above, but maybe people couldn’t understand the stats: Pew did a poll in 2011 asking Americans their reaction to seeing a Confederate flag displayed. Only about 30% had a negative reaction, 58% had no reaction/neutral and about 10%, a positive reaction. Of the blacks surveyed, more had “no reaction” (45%) than a “negative reaction” (41%).

The Confederate flag has various connotations, positive, neutral, and negative: symbol of the South/regional pride, family heritage to some, just a sticker seen on pickup trucks of country music/Nascar fans for others, sure indicator of ignorant/low class white trailer trash to others, (Can I say that if I’m white and used to live in a trailer? Or is that racist?) and nasty reminder of slavery/segregation to others.
Those who believe that “Everyone has agreed on the meaning of this flag–Racism pure and simple” are mistaken. Most Americans–almost 60% according to this poll–have no reaction toward it. I imagine a lot of those neutral opinions include “Don’t recognize that flag–what country is it from?” or “Was that on Dukes of Hazzard?” or “Vaguely rural southern association, but since I’m an urban northerner/westerner, not really my thing, but whatever (shrug) . .”
(Should northerners/westerners even be allowed to have an opinion on this? That’s another question. . .)

You can’t read others’ minds and assume you know what they think/intend. You can’t tell people what they ought to find offensive, either. That is, unless you want to join the thought police/witch hunt to seek out “offenders” and silence/restrict/control/shun/shame/ruin-the-lives of those whose opinions differ from yours. And then re-educate them until they form the “correct” opinion. Will teaching them your “correct” opinion/version of history change their reaction to the flag? I doubt it. ( And do we really want more people to join the “offended 30%?” Why?)
Actually, most (yes, MOST) Americans don’t really care about this piece of cloth/bumper sticker/t-shirt and give it no power. Perhaps they already have read the history and formed a different opinion than yours. Maybe they want to forget that history or actively change the meaning of this symbol by using/wearing/selling it. Maybe they are happily ignorant. Even if you judge their views to be “wrong,” or misinformed, they are just as entitled to their views as you are to your view, because there is no real consensus on the meaning of this symbol. (I’d bet you’d get very different results if you did a poll on how Americans react to seeing the Nazi flag–with a very strong majority negative–and that’s why you shouldn’t compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi flag.)

fwiw, my family has no Civil War history–both sides are 20th century Eastern European immigrants . I grew up in the midwest, but did live in the rural south as an adult for more than a decade. (One town had/has a Confederate flag on one side of its high school sign, and an American flag on the other. The school’s fight song is “Dixie.”) I don’t own a Confederate flag. And never plan to. Just not part of my culture. I do have a couple Soviet flags that I got back in the early 80’s. Most of my relatives would find them offensive. Yes, I know very well that the Soviets were responsible for horrible things on a massive scale, and I have no positive feelings towards the USSR. Still, I want to keep these flags, one of which I did display in my house for years. (How and where is another story. . .) I don’t like the idea of judging someone on one possession. If you wonder why someone would own or display something that YOU find offensive, ask him/her about it. (If your nickname is “the rebel,” it doesn’t seem unreasonable that you might want to have a Rebel flag to represent that nickname. . . Am I missing something because I don’t find that racist/offensive?)

[Pizzagirl]

“What about Kanye West selling T-shirts with the Confederate flag on them during his 2013 tour?”

What about it? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Of course, KW is a private individual who is free to sell whatever merchandise he likes, and people are of course free to buy it, but it’s sort of a lame defense.

“That is, unless you want to join the thought police/witch hunt to seek out “offenders” and silence/restrict/control/shun/shame/ruin-the-lives of those whose opinions differ from yours. And then re-educate them until they form the “correct” opinion. Will teaching them your “correct” opinion/version of history change their reaction to the flag?”

Oh, for heaven’s sake, I don’t want any laws passed that private individuals cannot own / fly Conf flags. That’s not very American. I can, however, express my opinion that when they do, they kind of come across as ignorant and rebellious-for-the-sake-of-being-rebellious, neither of which are good traits. I can shame them (that is, if they care about my opinion, which they very well may not). Why can’t I?

And I kind of place it in the same mental space category as a Nazi flag. Great in a museum, troublesome outside one.

[Erin_s_Dad]

Since we have no further information on how this affects college admission I’m going to close this thread. If others want to restart in the Cafe that’s up to them.