Research Universities vs. LACs???

The OP has not mentioned anything about affordability. If, after running all the net price calculators for their chosen schools, they still come up short, there are plenty of LACs that offer merit scholarships.

Plus of research univ is ability to actually become published before graduated undergrad which helps in grad school admissions and nsf fellowships - if that is your route, LACs may not afford that opportunity.

Why would this necessarily be true?

I.e. would an Amherst student be more likely to explore than a Brown student? Or a UNC Asheville student than an MIT student?

@ucbalumnus, MIT students have to declare their major in the spring of their freshman year. For UNC Asheville students it’s not until they’ve completed 60 of the required 120 credit hours for graduation.

Many large research universities require students to apply by major and many have fewer distribution requirements than LACs. Of course this isn’t true of all (thus @circuitrider’s more likely.

@amandakayak I have a rising senior at Pomona and she has been published as a co-author with one of her professors. She is also presenting one of her research papers at a conference this summer where she is the only undergraduate presenter. And I know she’s not the only one having this experience. Here’s another: https://www.pomona.edu/news/2017/11/20-jiwon-lee-18-explores-economics-behind-gender-issues. And I don’t think this is limited to Pomona. My D did an exchange semester at Swat and it was the Swat professor that directed her to the call for papers for the conference she’s presenting at this summer.

Yeah, both my kids had published papers as undergrads; one at Swat (with two other authors) and one at Yale (with a dozen or more authors). You decide which was more involved in the research :slight_smile:

@circuitrider Nice W!

However, many of the schools with fewer or less restrictive distribution requirements are LACs.

Open curriculum (but may require a major):

Amherst (LAC)
Brown* (RU)
Evergreen State (LAC)

Less restrictive distribution requirements (typically “no more than N credits/courses in any one subject or divisional area” rather than “minimum of N credits/courses in specified subjects or divisional areas”):

Grinnell (LAC)
Hamilton (LAC)
Sarah Lawrence (LAC)
Smith* (LAC)
Vassar (LAC)
Wesleyan (LAC)

  • Except for students pursuing ABET-accredited engineering majors.

I’m actually a fan of LACs (my oldest is at one and I think they are great for a lot of kids) but another down side (that was mentioned by someone else earlier but I’m going to bring up again) compared to larger universities is the smaller amount of majors. My daughter had a couple of friends transfer out after freshman year when they realized they wanted to study something that wasn’t available at her school, and she’s going to have to do a post-baccalaureate year before applying to grad school because her school doesn’t have a communication disorders major (she didn’t realize she wanted to head toward speech therapy until about a year ago).

What about differences in social life? Do certain personalities do better at certain schools? Is a small LAC ever too much like high school?

Also, do you have to take more core classes at LACs than at bigger universities?

re: core classes, it really depends on the school; both LAC and university. My kids (Swat and Yale) had about the same amount of required distribution requirements, though my STEM kid at Yale had to suffer through an intensive language requirement which she wasn’t all that thrilled with. So “it depends.”

@hdl160: Re: post #29 above.

Small LACs are very much like high school with respect to social life, in my experience. I found it to be a bit suffocating.

My D attended a LAC and never felt it was like a HS in any way. I should say that we didn’t look at any LACs under 2,000 students as we felt that they might be too limited in terms of diversity of students, academics etc. I recognize that some thrive at the very small LACs but my comments and my D’s experience is geared to over 2,000 students.

I think she had a full experience that was nothing like HS because she chose to push herself every year. Socially it was not like HS because she found amazing friends freshman year – but the biggest difference from HS is that she kept her circle of friends growing by meeting new people every year through Greek Life, activities, research, going abroad for a summer, her living situation etc. In HS she had the same group of friends for all four years with few additions. She also became very independent. And academically she pushed herself – she loved the small classes was able to create a relationship with some professors, found a major she really connected with, did a minor for fun, took challenging classes in other areas of interest, and by junior year was very involved in research with two different professors (culminating in co-authoring a paper in a scholarly journal). I do think that after 4 years my D was ready to move on with the next phase of her life, but that is healthy I think. (My S who loved his university was also ready to move on after graduation – I think it is a natural cycle). Are LACs for everyone – I’m sure not. Even my S felt LACs were too small for him. The whole idea is to find what works for you within the realm of what is affordable. There is no one right or wrong answer.

It is all a matter of fit and probably a bit of luck. I also agree that large schools are amazing for some (and many examples are on this thread) and not so great for others. For example my D’s close friend went to a huge excellent public and was never quite able to “make it smaller.” He struggled with the huge intro level classes, did not get accepted into his preferred major, did not get into the frat he hoped – so while he did make friends and stay to graduate he did not seem to have an incredibly happy experience. Again, it is fit and luck.

In terms of required coursework that is depending on the college itself, not if it is a LAC or a large university. My D’s LAC had a flexible set of graduation requirements while my S went to a Jesuit university which had a huge and inflexible core curriculum. The big core was not a bad thing for my S as he was in a b-school and I felt that the core gave him a very strong liberal arts education. But my D had specific areas of interest she wanted to pursue in college and didn’t want a huge core to stand in her way. This is something you should be able to look up on each school’s website.

Many LACs encourage students to study abroad for their junior year, and some LACs offer the opportunity to study at another LAC for a semester or year through an exchange program.

A key to enjoying one’s time at an LAC is to get involved in meaningful activities outside of the classroom such as sports, college newspaper, etc.

The choice between a research university & an LAC really depends upon the individual as to which will provide a more stimulating & enjoyable four years. This is often expressed as fit.

@hdl160 Regarding courses, as others have said, it depends. I had one research university kid and one LAC kid. The research university kid had to have 12 credits (basically, 4 courses) in 3 areas of focus – humanities, social science and science. He was not a science guy, and having to take those 4 science courses was brutal. My LAC kid has to take 2 courses in 4 areas of focus (the same 3 as the university kid, plus an additional Arts category). He has found it much easier and enjoyable to meet those requirements. At any school, it is worth understanding the gen ed/distribution requirements, including policies about “testing out” etc. It may not be a make or break factor in the decision, but it is important to understand.

As for personality/social life, my university kid is very outgoing, makes friends easily. He also was comfortable with the large lecture format plus weekly discussion sections. My LAC kid chose a small school precisely because he knew he needed to sit in a small room with the professor right there and that he would drown in a large lecture format. So for him, style of learning dictated the choice about type of school. He is also less outgoing than his brother, and the ease of meeting people at a LAC who share his interests probably makes college life more enjoyable for him. His LAC is about 2200 students, and that did feel bigger, busier, and more diverse, than some of the 1600-1800 student LACs he visited, though that is a highly personal reaction. At many LACs, about 1/2 of the junior class (though some may go sophomore year) take at least a semester away, so the total number of students on campus is always smaller than the actual “official” size of the student body.

It is also important to be aware of a school’s financial picture. For example, universities experiencing a shortage of funds often resort to cutbacks which result in larger class sizes.

Colleges & universities with a healthy endowment ( overall & especially when broken down into endowment per student), can provide more, and often better, resources.

Not unless it’s a LAC that draws from one region, like a high school. A directional state college might feel that way too, if everyone who goes there is from the same area.

Even a small LAC - say 1800 students, has ~450 new students every year.

Some LACs are in a consortium that does indeed make the small school large. That said, my kid is in one and hasn’t felt the need to use the resources of the other schools yet, in fact she’s running out of time to take everything she wants to take at her own. But should she decide to take a class in her major’s subspecialty of interest she can do that at the U in her consortium.

And yes, about half of the students at hers go abroad. She has had a great experience abroad though the giant U she is at has made her appreciate her home college courses and professors very much.

I went to a LAC, and my D is at one now. Neither felt like HS. While a HS can be larger, it draws from one neighborhood. Selective LACs choose their students from all around the country and beyond. It’s not the same at all. Different LACs (and universities) tend to attract different types of people, so if you visit a few you’ll find a very different vibe at different colleges. As for a lack of classes, my D chose one in a consortium in case she might want a larger course catalog, but hasn’t felt it was an issue at all. We kept reading here that she would “run out of relevant courses” at a LAC but honestly it hasn’t happened. Also she has been doing interesting research with a professor since her 2nd year.

FWIW my D (who went to a LAC) chose to do a summer abroad as she did not want to miss one of her semesters at college. She also spent two summers on campus doing research for a professor (and getting paid). As I said after four years she was ready to move (she got into a grad program she was/is very excited to attend) on but the school never felt too small while she was there.

Another important factor to consider is whether or not the LAC is dominated by the Greek system.