^^^Again it comes down to fit. Greek life is great for some but may not what others may be looking for. I think the presence of Greek Life is another topic. Greek Life can be equally important in defining the environment colleges ranging in size from a LAC to a huge university.
Greek life is a choice at a large research university; much less so at a small Greek dominated LAC.
Ok, I’m surprised nobody called this out:
“Most LACs are in small and boring towns with harsh cold weather so student lives revolve around campuses and they are closer to each other than research colleges in bigger and vibrant cities with lots to do in nice weather and not being forced to make campus sole focus of one’s life.”
Now if you were to say most Northeast LACs are in harsh cold weather, you would be correct, but LACs are pretty much equally distributed across the US and many of them are just as good as the Northeast ones.
@Publisher Presumably one wouldn’t attend a Greek dominated LAC if he/she wanted to avoid Greek Life. It is pretty easy to get a handle on Greek Life at any given college through statistics, guide book write-ups and, when possible, a visit.
Anyway, this is veering off topic and into the realm of debate.
It seemed too absurd to bother, to me 
I went to a state university and my 3 have attended LACs of varying sizes. Echoing what has been said already, the state school felt a lot more like high school 2.0 than anything my children have experienced. It drew in big blocs of kids all coming from the same high schools and those kids tended to stay together. Even when we did mix, for the most part, the school felt homogeneous. Even the tiniest of LACs seeks diversity and as a result, students mix with and learn from other students who have had very different life experiences.
As to the teaching, I am sure there is a lot of variability but I can tell you that my intro courses felt * exactly * like high school classes. Actually, that’s being kind.
I’m laughing at the characterization of LACs being found largely in small boring towns with harsh cold weather because there are plenty of research Us that fit that description as well. Especially the harsh cold weather part.
Particularly when it comes to the New England flagships- Orono Maine? Storrs Connecticut? Durham, NH? Kingston, RI… The largest city housing a New England state flagship is Burlington, VT, a city of 42,000 located 40 miles from the Canadian border!
How about State College, PA? or Bloomington, IN? or Ames, IA? Sheridan, WY? yeah, you could go all over on the the research side. My point was the CC community tends to think in two sub-sets. The UC group on the West Coast and the IVY/NE LAC group on the East, and they forget that the United States includes a whole and vast middle.
It’s a matter of personal preference, and I think parents should take their student to visit at least one of each, and preferably multiple of each of differing types (size, location, etc).
I went to an elite LAC. I loved the academics, but hated everything else about the school. It was in the middle of no where, very homogenous, and quite boring. Many loved it and are still very involved as alums. By contrast, I loved my grad school experience at a large research university.
Sophomore year, during our college road trip, I included an excellent LAC on the list so that my D could decide for herself whether she could see herself at one. It was the one school she had a strong negative reaction to (as I suspected she would). She only applied to large research universities as a result. As for class sizes, as an honors program student (and entering with junior standing), her freshman year classes were generally smaller than that of most freshman at LACs. She developed great relationships with her profs and was able to obtain multiple outstanding recommendations to competitive programs and scholarships. None of her classes were taught by a TA.
No LAC can match the breadth of research, majors and courses, extra-curricular and social options, or the school spirit, which were all very important to her, that is offered by a major research university.
A research university is the perfect fit for her. But it might not be for others looking for a different undergraduate experience. I don’t think one is per se better than the other.
No LAC? Not a single one can match up against any research U in any of the criteria you’ve listed? That’s a little bit too extreme and emphatic for me. For one thing, “school spirit” means different things to different people. Take Bryn Mawr as one example. The school has a number of time honored, cherished traditions that its students celebrate with enthusiastic energy and which they talk about fondly once they are alums. It builds community and a very strong school spirit. I’m not going to throw my alma mater under the bus but I can assure you that the common complaint at the time and probably even today is that there is no school spirit at all.
Again, using Bryn Mawr as an example, the research, majors, courses, as well as the extra curricular and social options extend into Haverford, Swat, and Penn…and into the city of Philadelphia. And even more importantly, you can actually get into the classes you want.
I’m glad your D found the place that felt right for her and I appreciate that you concluded your post with an acknowledgement that it might not be the right choice for someone seeking something different. I just wish that you hadn’t included such a strong, judgmental sentence. You are right that it’s a matter of personal preference and that it’s important to visit a variety of schools and take in what they have to offer. I would really hate for someone new to this process to be scared off by a characterization that isn’t true.
For that matter, they aren’t mutually exclusive. UChicago is a Research University with the College being an LAC. I suspect that there are others like it. You kind of get the best of both. Of course Chicago can have brutal winters and as an LAC, it isn’t in the middle of no where :-*
@3girls3cats You are right that school spirit means different things to different people. My D goes to UGA and I don’t think any LAC can rival the school spirit at UGA or UT, A&M, Bama or Michigan, eg. Clearly we have very different definitions of school spirit. And that’s ok.
As for the others, a school of 25,000 just by sheer numbers will offer more breadth in majors, courses, ECs, etc. Thats really not debatable.
Fair enough, i did exaggerate a bit but most top ranked and well known LACs are located in smaller and/or harsh weather towns. Their lack of options brings everyone closer and keeps campus as their main focus. For ones who aren’t into winter sports, drinking or greek culture, these places can be really rough and suffocating.
Sure it’s debatable! Whether there are more majors, courses, etc. is irrelevant if it’s impossible or difficult to gain entry to them. And the importance of more majors, courses, etc. is limited by the fact that a single undergrad can only fit a finite number of classes into his schedule. It’s far more important that the classes and majors that interest a prospective student are available. The same logic goes to ECs. My older two were at schools that allowed them to register at more than one school and both took advantage of that. Neither one complained that they didn’t have enough classes from which to choose-more the opposite: They couldn’t take all the classes they wanted before their four years was up.
And yes, as to school spirit, we clearly do have different ideas on what that means. Again, I think the LAC I mentioned above certainly does rival the school spirit at any of the schools you list above. Its just different and it doesn’t refer to sports. It’s all a matter of how it’s defined and what it means.
More than a bit, in my opinion. My D looked at many LACs that are nothing like what you are describing. And this is a kid who is not “into” winter sports, drinking or greek culture yet is thriving at a LAC. Just to name a few… Wellesley, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Swat, Pomoma, Scripps, CMC, Pitzer, Occidental. I can name more. And I’m not sure that UIUC is any less remote feeling than the rural midwest LACs (and I know kids at UIUC, Grinnell and Oberlin). It’s important for people really asking this question to understand that there are rural Us, rural LACs, and also ones that are not either urban or suburban. And that some Us and some LACs have a strong greek presence and some don’t.
Well, as you are well informed about LACs, you already know that among top 10 LACs, most are in smaller and colder towns. I didn’t say every LAC is in similar location, nor are research unversities but there are more options there and bigger schools usually have more people and oppurtunities for entertainment. I’m glad your child is having a good time but obviously this is not a given for everyone. Neither its a given for every research school kid.
I agree with @happy1 that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Fit is very personal.
My husband, son and I all chose small liberal arts colleges. It was interesting for H and me to see our son arrive at that preference on his own. He walked off the Cornell campus saying the college was too big and not for him, and then saw Colgate and Hamilton the next day and announced that that was the type of college he preferred. This preference stayed strong throughout our tours: he consistently preferred the small colleges.
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IMO, I do not find the “like high school” comment about small liberal arts colleges to be accurate. In high school, there are only a few students at your level of intelligence and intellectualism hanging out with you in the “nerd group,” but when you go to a top small liberal arts college, every student in the whole school is like that! Your potential friend group at college is therefore much larger. I am not implying that you can’t be friendly and kind to students in high school who are different from you academically— but it is exciting to be at a college where everyone loves learning and ideas as much as you do. This would be true at any top college, whether small or a large research university.
I did not find either high school or college to be “suffocating,” and greatly enjoyed the sense of community at my LAC (which, BTW, had no frats- and many of the top LACs do not have frats). But as @Publisher’s experience shows, individuals vary.
Visit a variety of colleges at different sizes and in different locations and see which you prefer!
There is not a “better” model— just a better fit for you!
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Re: your question about open curricula: There is no relationship between size and requirements, so that is a different factor to consider.
The colleges with completely open curricula include one research university and a few LACs:
Amherst
Brown
Grinnell
Hamilton
Smith
@TheGreyKing : My LAC was dominated by Greek life–which made a small school even smaller. Overwhelmingly white, rich & preppy. I prefer diversity & individuality, not cliques & conformity. It was rural, isolated, cold & social life revolved around frat parties. One semester of that was enough for me.
One important point not discussed in this thread is the difference among LACs which can greatly affect one’s experience. For example, LACs in a consortium of schools offer more diversity & opportunity. Nevertheless, large national research universities offer a wealth of variety, opportunities & choices not found in most LACs.
My experience seemed to be the opposite of Publisher’s. I started out at 50,000-student Ohio State, and found all the available activities and diversions kept me from studying. Since I was in a frat, that dominated everything else. The huge classes in auditoriums with hundreds of students, and TAs that couldn’t speak English, didn’t help.
After my freshman year, I ended up transferring to the University of Alaska Fairbanks, which was one of the best decisions I ever made. While it wasn’t a LAC, it was a small, public flagship with only 3000 students, and the largest class I ever had was 60 people. The small size of the classes, professors who actually knew me by name and took an interest in how I was doing, and relative lack of things to do during winter outside of studying (you could either either ski, lift weights, drink or study) helped my GPA immensely.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
I think the OP has enough responses. As many have said, it’s a personal choice. Since the thread is now trading personal anecdotes, it’s time to close.