I am an MD/PhD student myself in (hopefully) the final year of the PhD so I can’t answer your question yet.
You can start by looking at the NRMP results. Look at Table 1 for US Seniors:
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ADT2015_final.pdf
Competitive specialties have more applicants than positions. Medium competitive specialties have approx the same number of positions as applicants and less competitive specialties have more openings than applicants.
An easier way to see the relative competitiveness is by clicking thru all the various specialty descriptions at WUSTL’s residency roadmap
https://residency.wustl.edu/Choosing/SpecDesc/Pages/Home.aspx
As you can see the relative competitiveness of some specialties change from year to year.
For example, PM&R has become a more competitive match in the last year or two because it’s become a highly desirable “life-style” specialty. Also ther just aren’t many training positions for that specialty.
Similarly, general surgery has moved from a highly competitive specialty to an intermediate one. (Again probably because of lifestyle. Surgery as a whole has a malignant reputation for treating its residents badly. But another factor could be because the specialty itself is in turmoil right now about revamping residency graduation requirements.)
Specialty choices are very personal decisions, and specialties go in and out “fashion”. Specialties can also become less competitive because more training positions open up.
Based on the WUSTL data:
Highly Competitive
Dermatology^
Neurosurgery
Opthalmology^
Orthopedic Surgery
Otolaryngology
Urology
Intermediate Competitive
Emergency Medicine
General Surgery
OB/GYN
PM&R
Psychiatry^
Low Competitive
Anesthesiology
Diagnostic Radiology
Family Medicine
Internal Medicine
Neurology
Pathology
Pediatrics
Radiation Oncology (strong downward trend in competitive over that last 5 years, used to be highly competitive)
^ denotes a upward jump in the competitiveness category for the 2015 Match.
Now the thing is--there are different kind of competitiveness. The first kind is strictly numbers. # of applicants vs. # of positions. (Which is what above list uses.)
The second kind is the academic requirements needed to match into that specialty. (USMLE scores, publications, grades, AOA, class rank, # of clinical experiences, etc)
Look at Radiation Oncology--in terms of number of applicants vs. number of available positions, it's a low competitive specialty, but if you look at the USMLE scores, grades, publications, advanced degrees etc needed to be considered for Rad Onc, it has the highest academic requirements of any specialty.
The third type of competitiveness has to do with matching not just into any program in a specific specialty, but into specific programs within a specialty.
Matching into a top pediatrics residency is just as or more difficult than matching into any orthopedic surgery residency.
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So there's a lot of nuance to "competitiveness". " I’ve gained a whole new respect for these kids! It cost this poor kid (He’s borrowed every cent he’s had for the last 4 years!) almost $2000 to apply" - Yes, we paid that much. Then D. considered herself so very lucky to receive 12 invites and about 15 to Prelim programs. I believe that she went to about 26 or so interviews and it was lots more money for that as she was flying all over the place sometime without stopping at home. Pre-interview dinners were also mandatory for the most of specialty interviews, which was logistically complicating the process even further, but it was a fun part.
BTW, one specialty is omitted above and that one is considered the MOST selective - Plastic Surgery, aka simply Plastics.
Very informative–Thanks! The Wash U site, linked above, for 2015 has Plastics in the ‘low’ range of competitiveness. Interesting.
^it’s because they are using a strictly “admissions rate” metric, which I personally think is much less important than looking at the actual metrics of the students admitted. For a specialty like plastics, there will be a lot of medical students who want to do plastics but won’t bother or are forbidden from applying because their application is flat out too weak to be competitive.
I agree with IWBB and WOWmom, there are many specialties which are more selective than the strict number of applicants would indicate due to self-selection bias, some specialties have such high average scores that many students don’t bother to apply.
A somewhat personal reveal, my DD was going to apply in one particular specialty, then early in MS4 she discovered another area of interest on a 4th year clinical rotation. There was no time to be certain so before the early Sept deadline for residency applications. She applied to the long assumed area and also to the new area of interest. She then did an away rotation in the new specialty in the fall in hopes of either falling in love or eliminating it. She followed that up with an away in her long assumed prospective specialty and had completed a sub-i over the summer. Because of the timing involved she ended up applying to 20 programs in each specialty ($$) and even worse, interviewing at 10 programs in each specialty in locations ranging from Texas to Wisconsin to Hawaii and most of the western states.
That was an expensive decision, but as I told her at the time, better to fully consider all those choices in MS4 than be one of the kids on SDN sadly and desperately trying to change after the first year of residency! It also made her 4th year much more stressful and intense than her friends who only applied to one place, she had to take extra time out of rotation during interview season such that she was finishing requirements right up until the end, whereas many MS4s spend April & May traveling.
There simply is not time to experience all there is to know about the specialties in MS3. From what we could gather at the time, it is highly frowned upon to be considering two specialties, if the program director finds out, they may not rank you at all as they see you as a risk for being dissatisfied. For my kid, taking the time to do more rotations in those two areas and seeing all the programs gave her a chance to NOT have buyer’s remorse. I told her if any one found out and asked her about it, that should be her explanation. She interviewed at 5-6 places where she juggled interviews in both specialties.
D1 was a bit like somedaughter.
She was having trouble deciding between specialties. Both specialties attract similar personality types and the attendings in both fields were full court press recruiting her to apply in their specialty. She did Sub-Is in both; did aways in both; had SLOEs for both. In the end she only applied to one specialty, but literally didn’t decide until the day she submitted her ERAS.
It’s been a relief to hear in many of our conversation this year that she knows she made the right choice and she really likes what she does. (Even if her life does suck right now……)
I have to say this is one thing that our state med school well. Students start working in "Continuity Clinic" during MS1. They work in clinic right beside the MS3/4s (only without the patient responsibilities MS3/4 have). As a MS1, they're restricted to primary care specialties. One each term. As a MS2 and MS3, they can choose anything they want. Because D1 had more exposure to more specialties before she started clinicals, she had a better idea of what she liked/didn't like and could plan early in MS3 for what electives and Sub-Is she wanted to take. somemom,
Your D. is very smart to consider and follow up on both. Mine just took a risk with one, but also she got disappointed by another specialty that she used to consider. However, 40 programs to apply is not so bad at all. Consider 100 - that was my D’s number (including Prelims), all in hopes of getting at least 10 specialty interviews.
So in Prelim year, D. is an Internal Medicine intern with many electives. Despite her horrendous schedule, (as an example, yesterday at noon she was done with her 30 hour shift and she was back in hospital at 6am today for the 12 hour shift), she sounds very satisfied. Her attending told her that she would be a good internist. He knows though that she is there only for one year. D. is responsible for whole floor during nights, she is the only MD on the floor during nights. Floor has about 22 patients. She said that she cannot take a nap even when time allow her, her brain continue spinning.
She also enjoys her clinic. She is up to 20 of her own patients (outpatient), 5 of them speak and understand only Spanish and D. is using her other foreign language with another patient. They have translation services, but D. noticed mistakes. D. said that using Spanish slows her down, but she could do it without translation services.
anyone else applying to residencies this year? currently waiting for more interviews to come in.
fun note- program director for plastics said 95% of people will respond to an interview invite within 10 min. got my first interview to competitive specialty today (not plastics), and 90% of slots were filled within the hour. no wonder all 4th years are constantly checking their phones every minute
LOL! D1 said she hated to scrub in during residency invitation season because she couldn’t check her phone.
DD ended up applying to some thirty or so programs, all for Peds, and thus far has landed just under 10 interviews. Never realized the process is so much effort, and all after November, at that. I get tired even thinking of how her winter’s going to be. I don’t know if it’s a common practice, but most of her classmates spend a fair part of their final year in rotations elsewhere. DD finished one at UPMC Childrens and then went to Baylor.
The " Plastic Surgery, aka simply Plastics" discussion cracked me up. I just kept seeing the iconic scene from my favorite movie of all time replayed with some wise physician talking to DD :
“I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? … PLASTICS”
What is the timeline? This young man’s applications are in (about 70 of them!)–when will he hear about interviews? Are there set days when a group of interviewees arrive?
@rutgersmamma, Just looked this up from SDN.
http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/threads/2015-2016-official-interview-invites-thread.1161765/page-6
(Not sure how to interpret it though.)
So, Isn’t it true that many (a half of them?) residency programs have already announced their interview list? (e.g., some did this as early as September?)
Not sure when they will stop sending out the interview. Maybe by the end of Octobor? Isn’t it true they send out the invites (according to what were posted above) without interview dates and whoever finds it out and succeeds in contacting a live person on the other end will secure the actual interview date (and maybe after they think they have enough interviewees, they are no longer that motivated in answering the call to give you an actual interview date?)
Is the interview list from a resudency program typically sent out in one large batch one time only , or is it sent out in several batches over several days/weeks/months?
Different specialties have different interview “seasons”. Some are already holding interviews; other won’t start for another month. Some specialties continue to interview until the end of January; some are done before Christmas.
It really depends.
And there is such a thing as interview “hold pools” and interview waitlists.
Hold pool mean these applicants are interesting enough the program doesn’t want to reject them, but they’re not the program’s first choice on paper. People in the hold pool may get IIs during the second or third wave of interview invitations after the program has already scheduled their most highly desirable applicants/
A waitlist mean the program has tendered the student an interview invitation, but there weren’t any available slots left by the time the student tried to register for one. If another applicant cancels their interview or the program opens more interview slots, a mass email goes out to everyone on the waitlist who then scrambles to signup for an available slot.
@mcat2 I know interview invitations don’t have date on them because programs will typically offer a list of available dates. But it was my understanding that student could sign up on a website (ERAS or on the program’s own website) for interview slots/dates. Applicants only needed to speak with a live person at the program for a limited number of situations–like if they were being offered a cancellation slot or if only one or two additional interview dates were being opened (because if the applicants couldn’t take it, the program wanted to offer them to someone else.) Now I’ve heard of invited applicants who couldn’t find an open slot calling (often repeatedly!!!) programs to ask if additional dates will be opening or if there are any cancellations.
Interview invitations go out in waves–typically a large first wave for applicants the program are extremely interested in, followed 1 or 2 (occasionally 3, depending on the program) smaller waves of IIs.
In D1’s experience, II waves came about 3 weeks apart.
Thanks, WOWmom.
I happen to notice (from the link referred to on #836) that at DS’s teaching hospital, the list came out in the first week of Oct. Do not know which specialty it is for though. (That is, do not know whether that list is for any specialty, or it is for a “larger” specialty like medicine only.)
Believe he sent in applications in mid-September, on the first day the window was open…Just curious when to ask BFF follow-up questions about her DS… This process is so complicated!
Glad I didn’t have to deal with it with my own off-spring!!
@mcat2 thats the interview invite list for internal medicine. each specialty has its own list in their subforum.
ive already had 1 prelim interview. still waiting for more prelim interviews to come in hopefully.
also patiently waiting for interviews for my specialty, but the bulk of those wont come until late oct to late nov.
Rutgers,
the timeline depends a lot on specialty. Some very selective specialties have it much later for some reason.
Best wishes to all who are applying this year. We did not realize either, that the residency application cycle is the most challenging of them all. In comparison, the college and Med. School application cycles were really just fun experiences.