Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Wonder what are the more challenging aspects in the residency application as compared to other applications (other than the apparent one like the need to travel to more interview places. Is it true that an applicant needs to rank at least 10 programs to get a decent chance to match anywhere?)
I kind of have the impression that for medical school application, research ECs, some clinical experience and volunteering are important. Is this still true for an applicant who applies for residency programs? Medical school life is likely busier than college life. Do med school students still do a lot on these 3 fronts (research, clinical experience and volunteer)? I am aware that the second one (clinical experience) has been taken care of by MS3 rotations automatically. How about the other two âECsâ?
As to challenging aspects of residency app, certainly performance while a med student is critical to get II. But at this point in the app season, the obvious answer is the interview. As one PD told candidates when S was interviewing, all interviewees are ranked A,B,C (top to bottom) pre interview. (I got impression from S that some version of an A,B, C, ranking system was typical)âŠAfter interview they can be moved up or down, or ranked âDâ, meaning DO NOT RANK. You can look amazing on paper (eg STEP scores, ECs, AOA, etc), then by being rude, arrogant, not get along with current residents, PDs, even staff, etc at interview, you can kiss your chance at that program bye bye.
Is the IM program at Brown in RI a relatively small program (e.g., its IM program does not take many residents a year)? This is because I did not see any SDNers had posted their II for Brown on the SDN link posted here (It is said that thread is for IM.)
Either Brownâs first wave of IIs have not been sent out yet (like most programs in MA), or it does not take many residents/IIs so no one posted it there yet (only a small percentage of applicants would post their II results on SDN, I think.)
Somehow I think that, for applying to residency programs, the âbig heartâ (empathy?) factor (i.e., volunteer) is less important than for applying to med school (e.g., for most specialties and even IM, but it could be important for those on the Primary Care (PC) track, e.g., I heard UCSF have more PC focus while NW or Stanford may not. HmmâŠisnât Cambridge for the PC track? I am not sure here.)
TX residency program IIs are always among the first to be sent out, just like TX med school IIs.
As far as I know the Research is basically a must. Well, let me put it another way, I do not know anybody who is not done it. But it may be because at Dâs Med. School one rotation was devoted to a research. Some did more - in a summer after first year. D. decided to go to Peru with the group from her school, she could not fit research into summer after that trip.
The aspects of each specialty application is probably different and so are challenges. In comparison to other application cycles, D. had to apply to many programs, she applied to 100 and some other applicants applied to more than that. Applicant has to be anticipating the interview invite at all time. The interview spots are filled very quickly. I was Dâs backup to watch (she showed me how) when she was not accessible (sometime because of travel). And it has happened one time when she had an invite from the very desirable location and I could not reach her. I will never forget my desperation and relief when she finally got my message and was able to schedule an interview. She did not have the dates to choose from, sometime it was 1 and the most it was 2 (if I remember correctly). It was normal to have only 2 - 3 spots in a program, 4 spots were considered to be a large program. The average number of applicants to one program seem to be 500. In addition to that, D. was told by her superiors that the MD/PhD are in front of them even with the lower Step 1 scores. The reason must be that Dâs specialty is heavy on research. Some programs devote certain number of spots to DOâs, but it is so incredibly harder for DOâs to get to selective residencies.
Well, then it is travel. When applying to colleges and Med. Schools, D. had a luxury to choose to apply only within 3.5 hours of driving to college and about 6 hours of driving to Med. schools. No such case this time around. She basically applied to all programs eliminating few un-desirable for her locations - specifically, whole CA and few others in the West and NYC. According to what she was told by people in advisory capacity, she anticipated the regional invites. These comments were based on the fact that she stayed in her home state of OH for both college and Med. School and she did not have a single away rotation. Again, no such case, actually a big surprise - several interviews in NE and many far away. Driving to many interviews was not possible, although discussed over and over. Logistically with the mandatory pre-interview dinners, she had to fly to most of her specialty interviews. Then there are prelim interviews in addition to all of that, 26 was Dâs total count. Specialty interview themselves were intense, but D. usually somewhat enjoys this aspect of application, she use them to make impression for herself. All in all, as I said many times, she was ready to go to any place. However, she did no like one place and another was borderline and it was no surprise to me and to her that both were in NE. D. felt that people are different there and she did not belong there. This was another challenge so to speak, but not everybody is so socially sensitive. But again, D. did not have this challenge in her previous cycles when she applied only in Midwest.
It was also very stressful for us also. I personally watched every single of Dâs flights, yes, I watched the little plane on the screen. Sometime she did not have a chance to stop at home, flying from one interview to another on another side of the country. I even had to buy her another suit (without her!) and it fitted perfectly.
Sorry for such a long âexperience un-loadâ. Some of it is very personal and subjective and does not reflect the experience of others. And maybe it was more challenge because D. had such and easy time with the college and Med. School application cycles.
Iâm not sure these are more valued in PC specialties than more competitive specialties since PDs arenât necessarily looking for empathy in applicants. I think theyâre looking more for evidence of leadership in their volunteer projects, especially at academic (vs. community) programs.
As for earliest interview invitationsânot Texas for D1 by a long shot. (She already had accepted 3 or 4 IIs before she heard from Texas programs.)
@mcat2 If you want to see how many resident positions a particular programs, you can always check FRIEDA.
âApplying to 100 programs?â How could anyone afford traveling that many times within a few months? It must drain all your energy if you end up having that many interviews. Or, usually, the ratio between the IIs and the total application number tends to be lower than the sane in the med school application cycle (Another factor here may be preliminary + advanced, as well as category in some cases. If it is for the former case, you essentially only apply to 50 combinations (say, 50 for prelim, and 50 for advanced.)
Just two SDNers posted for Brown today. If Brown has 29 slots, the the ratio of applicants who posted their IIs for this program is quite small. Maybe the same for other programs/specialties.
For med school application, it is often said what type of research is not very important as long as you have some kind of research (remember a case of ants research.) Is it very different for applying to residency programs? For example, for applying a certain specialty, it is better to have a publish in a conference specific to that specialty. After all, for this round of application, it is to apply to only one SPECIFIC specialty (or , in rare cases, two specialties simultaneously)
But hoping for 10+ interviews, in the extremely competitive specialties, this is a method, the same thing is recommended (on SDN!) for foreign med grads and people with low stats.
Wow. I do not know the rate of interview invites could be so low for some competitive specialties. This seems to be very different from the rate of getting IIs in the med school application cycle.
I read from somewhere that the goal is to have the opportunity to rank 10 programs in the end, meaning that you have interviewed at 10+ programs.
I also read from somewhere that ON AVERAGE, if a residency program has N slots, they will rank 10*N applicants they have interviewed also. (But I am not sure of this.)
âApplying to 100 programs?â How could anyone afford traveling that many times within a few months? - Yes, exactly, "But hoping for 10+ interviews.â Actually more than 10, 10 - specialty interviews and few Prelim. I mentioned that D. had about 26 interviews, 12 were specialty interviews. No, you do not apply to 50 combinations, the Prelim and Specialty are not related and are not at the same location, except the categorical specialty programs that include prelim year, but then, it is only one application. D. applied to couple of categorical. Total 100 = 85 specialty + 15 prelims.
From what I know, Research is usually done in specialty that you are planning to apply, but again, it may depend on specialty. D. did not have publications though. She is still working on it, it is in a second review.
Whew! 57 pages! Iâve read some, but not most! I feel like Iâm very behind. This residency process sounds like it will be another Adult Beverages are the Answer process.
Spent a couple of days with my son (so rare these days!), and next year will be here before we know it.
He did well (I think) on his STEP I âŠhe got a 256 - got his score around May 20 - which I think is a good score. I hope itâs good enough. I donât really know what the numbers mean. He was absolutely sick after the exam ~ thinking he failed. He actually studied for this exam - unlike the MCAT which he didnât.
Iâll get back to reading more pagesâŠand visiting the wine section at Costco and SamsâŠ
I have no idea. I donât know what the numbers mean. Heck, I almost wrote 156 but then I checked the text I sent to hubby with the score. (lolâŠat least I know that a 256 is better than a 156! )
Do you know if residencies also have the same in-state/out-of-state policies that public medical schools have? Unlike med school, DD had applied all over for residency and seems to have landed a fair number of interviews across the country, albeit in a less-competitive field.
They do not as their funding is federal, not state. I also imagine that since now they are employees, not students, that it probably would be an illegal form of discrimination?
I have never heard that there is any OOS or instate issues for residencies. Residencies arenât state tax supported. As Brown mentions, the residents are employees, not students. The residents arenât paying tuition.
BrownâŠif the funding is federal, then how does that work for intâls? I have heard that some wonât accept intâls because they donât have the means or time to deal with visa issues, etc.
I think a Canadian who was graduated from an American med school is likely treated not as an international student, or is at least treated as a âbetterâ international student. Is this true?
