Hi all. I’m back for another reality check. D has a 34 ACT. She is trying to get into one of the BSMD programs and the competition is fierce. Her lowest score on the ACT is math. She basically just realized that she could have made much better use of her calculator and the ability to program in formulas. I think there is a chance she could get the 35 with a retake, but I honestly don’t know if its worth it. Do you think these programs will make a big difference between 34 and 35? Is it worth the additional stress? I think she is leaning towards trying again. But I can also see the burn out.
Thanks.
I don’t know whether the two point difference would matter for BSMD programs, but they ARE amongst the most competitive for admissions of ANY programs a student applies to.
I assume your daughter understands that she can apply to medical school for when she completes her bachelors, right?
@WayOutWestMom any opinions on this one?
If she has something truly lopsided like 36-36-36-29, and could make a significant improvement in math (like to a 31 or 32) based on practice test scores, I’d tell my kid a retake would be fine.
35-35-35-32, and she might be able to pull the 32 up to a 33, I’d advise against spending time on it.
If she hasn’t tried the SAT yet, I’d aim for a high math score there before I’d retake the ACT.
Her current composite score is a 34, but math is only 30. She really doesn’t want to take the SAT. She is more comfortable with ACT. Honestly, I would really rather her stop, but I don’t want to give her bad advice.
As someone who could never get her math ACT above 30, despite being good at school math, I would also be leaning towards a stop. But, like you, it’s hard to know the best way to advise a kid who’s going down a low odds path to begin with.
My gut feel is that if there were no constraints, a higher ACT would be better. But the reality is that there are constraints, and that the finite amount of time she has is better spent elsehow.
There isn’t any downside to taking it again (unless you’re concerned she’ll do worse and have to turn that in too), but it doesn’t sound like that’s an issue. A 35 is harder to get, so is just that much better. Seems like a lot of kids get 34s. I’d echo trying the SAT. My S took SAT and ACT. Same thing happened with ACT in math and science (subjects he was advanced in) (though 32s in his case). He ended up sending in the SAT (780 math) and ACT 34 (took it a 2d time trying for the 35 but only brought math up to 33 while science went down). I think the SAT math is easier.
My opinion–if her scores are within the 75-25 range of her target BA/MD programs, her time would be productively used if she were to work on her ECs and start writing her “why medicine?” essay.
The possible increase of 1-2 points on the math subscore is not worth the risk that upon retake her other subscores would go down.
SAT is not an option. That would require more study and more stress. Honestly, I’m hoping she can take fewer tests, not add an extra. But if a 35 would meaningfully increase her chances, I’d support it.
The strangest thing is that when her score increased from 33 to 34 I feel like the stress has increased. Its as if now that she is in striking distance suddenly there is anxiety that didn’t exist before.
Has she got SAT2 math or AP math scores? What math is she in at present?
Pay attention to post #1. Be sure your D is not too focused on getting into the MD program along with the BA/BS degree. Most physicians get a bachelors (eons ago I chose a BA for chemistry) before medical school. Yes, it would save money. But- it won’t make her a better physician - if that remains her goal. The odds for women are so much greater than we had it eons ago, btw. I also hope she does not stay rigid in her career goals once she discovers college fields.
I agree there are other factors more important than trying to increase an already high ACT score. Wonder why she would need to study for the SAT, btw. Most top test scorers I know of do not bother to do more than a practice test or so. And many of them do not want to become physicians.
Make sure she also enjoys her HS experience- she can never redo her childhood. Plus her college experience- I was able to take many diverse college courses unrelated to my major or future medical school, unlike my Indian H who did a medical track post HS.
I would look at her individual scores and figure out the average of the 4 scores. For a reported composite of 34, the actual average could range from 33.5 to 34.25. If it’s 33.5, then she would need to pick up an additional 4 points on her individual scores to get a 35 composite. If she thinks she’s probably maxed out the English/Reading/Science scores, and is unlikely to be able to bump her math score from a 30-34, then it’s not worth a retake. OTOH, if her last score average was 34.25, she’d only need one more point (in any section) to bump the composite up to a 35, and that would probably be worth it.
If she’s on the edge of burnout, I would not have her retake it. The score is in the ballpark for any program. I would have her spend the rest of the summer working on the essays and getting meaningful medical related experiences.
If she is on the edge of burnout over one ACT test taking, this should be watched. Trust me when I say…medical school is full of exam after exam after exam…after exam. This continues through rotations where there are Shelf exams after many rotations. Step 1 and Step 2 exams, clinical skills assessments…and on and on.
@WayOutWestMom I’m sure I’m missing some exams that you can add.
What does the rest of her application look like? Why BSMD? Is she actively involved in health care now? Volunteering or working? How is she spending her summer?
My kid took the ACT today and I’m just crossing fingers. He has scored as high as 36 on every section in practice, but is not always super consistent especially on the science section. So I can feel the pain! In my kid’s case, if he does want to try one more time after scores come in, I’m going to encourage him to try the SAT in August. My kid also wants to audition for music programs, so that’s something he needs to prep for but the ability to get merit money may open doors for him too.
I do think if you really want the BSMD route you should be 100% convinced of the path. I think there are a lot of great options for students that want to get get into medicine.
@MusakParent
Check the policies of the college. Some music BM programs offer music performance merit aid based on the strength of the audition (which is also used to determine acceptance into an auditioned program) and do not also award regular college merit awards. But some schools DO give both types of awards.
So…just check before you assume that your kiddo will be eligible for both types of awards…music merit and academic merit.
Thanks @thumper1 , we are aware some schools will only award for one or the other and each program is different this way! He just wants to keep his options open because he’s pretty academic and is leaning toward NOT going to a stand alone conservatory. It seems like most music conservatories just offer audition based merit. Digging up this kind of info is feeling like a full time job!
@gallentjill
You and/or your daughter are getting too hung up on numbers. Admission for med school --and for BA/MD programs-- is holistic. Stats are only one part of the whole. ECs, communications skills, leadership, motivations, character & personal qualities, demonstrated resilience, and maturity all are taken into consideration. It’s the whole package that gets judged not just her ACT math score.
And let me say this frankly–you as her parent are not objective enough to be a good judge of your daughter’s chances or the strength/quality of her application. Let your daughter make her own decision about the retake. She’s the one who has to live with the results.
Not getting an BA/MD acceptance is far from the worst thing that can happen in your D’s life. She can still apply to med school after undergrad like the overwhelming majority of successful matriculants so. (BTW, if you need some ideas of really bad things that can happen to your child, I can help you with that. Let’s start with cancer.)
And I will echo @thumper1 here, if your D is this stressed out over taking one ACT test, pre-med and med school may kill her. Literally. The suicide rate for med students and residents is 3-4x higher than their age peers. Studies of mental health among med students reveal that 40% have symptoms of [untreated] clinical depression and/or clinical anxiety at some point during med school. The rate of suicidal ideation is scary high. Mental health issues are the #1 reason why med students fail out of med school.
Medicine is one long string of high stakes, career-determining exams that unlike the ACT are all one-and-dones.
My daughter is sure of her path and has the extra curriculars to support it. The question is how much of a bump would 35 over 34 be.
Son did most of the research on the BS/MD programs. And he did see higher than average ACT scores as a whole and higher math/reading scores. He however did not retake his ACT score of 34(maybe 35) he felt it is not what gets the interview/acceptance but rather what can keep you out.
He did decide against applying to BS/MD after discussing with his PIs at Duke and UNC. He did have so many transferable AP units that UNC awarded him 72+ units, and could have drastically shortened his time in undergrad and pushed up medical school that way. Instead he went to an ivy received his AB (incurred no debt), then continued with 3 more degrees (STEM) at our local uni…ivy only allows 1 major. So in effect a gap year completing 3 more degrees while finishing up his research and applying and interviewing for med school.
His acceptances to med school came with scholarships and fellowships which when he researched the BS/MD programs did not have those med school scholarships as forthcoming. He applied to MD/MBA programs and the B-school scholarships seemed to be slim as well. During his HMS interviews and Dartmouth/Tuck, Cornell, NYU, Michigan. UofWash, the meetings with financial aid did not go well. In his estimation. He knew he was leaning toward primary care and did not want to be burdened with debt restricting residencies.
He opted for a top PC med school and a great B-school which offered him full tuition, fees, stipend for his MD and MBA. The joint program for that shortened his time and money OOP.
So if the BS/MD programs offer a full scholarship for undergrad and money for med school then that might be a great opportunity. But the schools with the joint programs for BS/MD were not at his top choices like MIT, CalTech, Penn, P’ton, harvard…with those acceptances in hand he figured med school would wait.
Do the BS/MD programs now offer scholarship/merit awards? That to me might be worth spending time on vs. trying to up the ACT score. Not that one effort negates doing the other, what is your daughters evaluation of her likelihood of getting a better score?
Kat