Retake SAT-Big Math vs EBRW difference

Applying to College
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Trying to decide if my daughter should take an SAT prep course and retake the SAT in October.

Her composite score is within the top 50-75% range of most schools on her list. But her Math score is much higher than her EBRW score. All but 2 schools on her current list of 15 are “test optional” (I don’t know if I fully trust that is actually the case). The 2 that require scores are her reach schools anyway.

Her stats are:

Composite SAT 1150; Math 650, EBRW 500

GPA: 3.85 unweighted; 4.3 weighted

Class rank: 15th of 225 ish

Taken honors/AP when available and appropriate (waiting for Jr year AP scores), taken Engineering 1 and AP English Jr year with A in both

Will take Engineering 3 (skipping 2), AP Physics, AP Computer ScienceA and AP Lit Sr year

Light on School extracurriculars: Musical and Tennis

Outside extracurricular/focus- competitive dance (15-20 hours per week Sept to June, 10 hours a week Summer), teaches younger dance classes, 3 team national titles, 1 solo national title. Also a summer library volunteer (5 hours a week) and participates in Summer theater

Intended major: Computer Science (maybe Cybersecurity?) or Engineering

Not necessarily chasing merit but would need at least some to make her choices feasible.

So what does the hive mind think? Prep course and retake, submit as is or don’t retake/don’t submit.

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I’d have her retake. CS is such a competitive major that it would be good to get both sections up a bit higher.

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Her SATs are so far below her GPA (I’d expect SATs of over 1400 with grades and rank like hers) that I would reconsider the entire idea of her putting more effort into standardized testing, given test-optional.

Have her take a practice ACT under timed conditions. It’s downloadable on the ACT website. If she does significantly better on the ACT than on the SAT, I would refocus her prep towards the ACT instead.

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If she’s up for it, she should retake or if not go test optional. My daughter will be a college freshmen this Fall. She had the same situation – one score higher than the other (but not as big of a difference as your daughter). She retook and the second time the low score became the higher score. Fortunately the colleges really do superscore and will throw out the 500. Also, for my daughter’s most competitive colleges she went test optional and for the less competitive ones sent in her test scores. She got into all of the colleges she applied to and it seemed going test optional didnt hurt her. Although it was a crazy year with the pandemic and I think colleges were very open to students applying test optional. Good luck!

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Be sure the schools on your D’s list are really test optional.

For example, Purdue is saying that they are test “flexible” but that students will need to write a short essay to let them know they weren’t able to test and why. They expect scores to be submitted if a test was taken.

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It would be helpful to know the schools on her list, and there test reporting status. Based on the incomplete info here, I would probably not recommend she take another SAT, or spend time prepping for the ACT……she likely has better/more important ways to spend her time.

Did she have any time issues finishing the SAT sections? If so, definitely doesn’t make sense to try ACT.

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SAT prep course & retake is the better option if your daughter is willing to put in the work needed to improve her score.

While most of your daughter’s options are test optional, many schools which offer merit scholarships use both GPA & standardized test scores.

If the retake does not show significant improvement, then apply test optional if offered as an option.

P.S. If not retaking, then it may be better to submit without these scores as the current scores are unlikely to help one seeking to major in CS or engineering. Retaking is important not just with respect to merit money, but–more importantly–with respect to gaining an offer of admission.

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I wish people would stop spending money on test prep classes. They are largely ineffective and so expensive. In almost all cases, that money would be far better spent on private tutoring.

If you decide to have her retake, please get a private tutor who can focus on the EBRW section of the test. A good tutor will be able to help pinpoint where your child is struggling and focus on the most problematic parts of the test.

I’m a test prep tutor and given this disparity in scores, it’s likely that the EBRW score can be improved with targeted tutoring. Your student needs to focus on the MAIN IDEA. When in doubt, always choose the answer most closely related to the main idea, even if the student has no idea why it’s right. I’d say 90% of the time, the header at the start of any passage in EBRW summarizes what the main idea is.

A fictional example:

Passage 3, Reading.
The header says something like “this passage was adapted from the article ‘Large winged birds rely on muscle for flight.’ Science Journal, 2013, etc…”

Question 21 might then be this:
This main purpose of this passage is to-
A. Propose a theory about the mechanics used by all birds during initial ascent.
B. Demonstrate empirical evidence showing that large winged birds are similar to mammals who utilize muscle mass when lunging at prey.
C. Summarize the findings of research conducted to study how muscle mass aids flight in large winged birds.
D. Compare similarities in the muscle structure and flight patterns of various large winged birds.

This is probably pretty easy to guess (I am not an SAT test writer), but the answer is clearly C. It’s the only answer that exclusively focuses on the title of the article cited in the header. A is wrong because it mentions ALL birds, and this passage is about large winged birds and not necessarily just initial ascent. B is wrong because, while it sure sounds fancy, the article doesn’t focus on lunging at prey, nor does it focus on mammals. D is wrong because the passage doesn’t discuss flight patterns and isn’t comparing muscle structure in various birds.

If the student focuses on the tree, rather than the whole forest, it’s easier to keep the main idea in view. Rather than trying to find a right answer, it’s often easier to get rid of wrong ones. Get rid of answers that don’t relate to the main idea. Whatever you have left is probably the right answer, even if the student isn’t sure why.

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Whether OP’s daughter takes a test prep course with other students or prefers individual tutoring, putting in the work required to improve will be necessary. There is no magic in private tutoring for one unwilling to work hard on practice tests before retaking.

OP: Did your daughter engage in any test prep prior to sitting for her SAT ? If not, then preparing–whether by individual tutoring, enrolling in a prep course, or obtaining & using a test prep book should help to increase her scores.

Different students often respond differently to various teaching methods as well as to various teachers.

Regardless, a test prep class is unlikely to decrease your daughter’s scores as her performance is well below her GPA & class rank (top 7%).

In short: The better course of action is to retake after engaging in some sort of preparation for the SAT.

FWIW: I know many students who earned life changing scores on a retake of a standardized test. The key to success appears to be in the students’ willingness to work hard at learning & understanding the particular standardized test, and not in the method of instruction / tutoring. So the question is whether or not your daughter is willing to commit to improving her scores through hard work & taking practice tests.

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Kind of thought that goes without saying. :slightly_smiling_face:

No tutoring is ever necessary, but as this user is thinking of spending money on classes, I am giving my opinion as an experienced tutor. I see a lot of students who did test prep classes first. People can, of course, choose how they want to spend their money.

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Some assume that taking a prep course will automatically increase their scores. While possible for attentive students, homework is important. OP’s daughter ranks in the top 7% of her class while taking courses with other students. In order to perform better than the others and earn a top 7% class standing, OP’s daughter probably engaged in her homework in a serious & determined fashion. Same practices should work for an SAT course.

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Can you give some examples of TO schools where one would need to have a test score for merit and/or be at a disadvantage for merit as a TO applicant?

Again, for OP, we need to know more, including what schools (and selectivity levels) are on the list to make recommendations wrt taking the SAT again. For many schools, a CS applicant would need a minimum improvement of several hundred SAT points to even begin considering applying with a test score.

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Not sure why you are asking me about test scores for TO schools regarding merit awards. Perhaps I should have separated the quote into two sentences.

My point was that while not needed for TO schools, there are schools which offer merit scholarship awards based on a combination of GPA & standardized test scores.

OP’s daughter is considering engineering or CS (cyber security) as potential majors.

OP’s daughter needs to improve by at least 50 points to 1200 in order to receive an academic merit scholarship at Ole Miss.

Best Undergraduate Cybersecurity Programs-US News

The University of Mississippi awards automatic merit scholarships based on one’s GPA & SAT/ACT score.

https://catalog.olemiss.edu/engineering/computer-science/bs-comp-sci/requirements

Sytacuse University offers lots of scholarships;

https://financialaid.syr.edu/scholarships/su/#academic-merit

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I see your dilemma. Is her SAT score consistent with her PSAT score? Did she do any prep before taking it this initial time?

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My point was that TO schools that have a gpa/test score merit grid also offer merit to those applying TO.

I was asking if you knew of any TO schools that weren’t doing that and/or gave relatively lesser merit to those applying TO….because that would be good info for all of us to know.

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There may be some colleges with clearly defined automatic merit for GPA + test scores, but only competitive merit for GPA without test scores.

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Good point.

I have not looked into it, but I do think that competitive schools will covet high standardized test scores for the rankings.

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University of AZ has a grid for merit based only on GPA.
https://financialaid.arizona.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/incoming-transfer

I don’t recall seeing if OP has any regional preferences or a list of universities they’re aiming for. With limited STEM EC’s and applying test optional, the most likely universities will be ones that have an fairly open admissions policy , even for CS and engineering. I think both UofA and ASU fit that description. ASU gives less merit, I think.

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There were a few questions regarding which schools my Daughter is applying to. Her list right now is:
Rowan
TCNJ
Rider
Bloomsburg
Scranton
Cabrini
Dickinson
Franklin & Marshall (big reach)
Misericordia
Ursinus
Ramapo
Scranton
Susquehanna
Wilkes
York College PA
Stevens Institute of Technology (really big reach)

Most are not terribly competitive. In all honesty, both the reach school will probably come off her list because even if she miraculously got in, we can’t afford them and there is zero chance of merit.
In reality, she will probably go to Rowan.

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That’s helpful.

It doesn’t seem like your D needs to retake the test based on the list and your affordability points.

Are all of these schools test optional? If so, only send her test score if it’s at or above the median admitted or matriculated test scores from last year.

Dickinson is test blind, not sure if that’s one of the reaches or not. Run the net price calculators at all the schools, definitely don’t apply to any where the estimated COA is unaffordable.

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