<p>We’re doing the lunatic thing in our house - full freight with shakey employment in a terrible market and in our fifties, no real wealth just big current incomes so no FA whatsoever in sending child to a prestige school, which in all honesty is probably providing about the same quality of actual education as he could have obtained on scholarship at several other schools slightly lower in the rankings. No other word for it - lunacy. But isn’t that what most of parenting is anyway?</p>
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<p>I guess some of my neighbors are space aliens after all. A couple of years ago a woman with a son the same age as my son asked me about some schools my son was considering. I got a quizzical look when MIT was mentioned, and she asked me “what state is MIT in?”. Believe me, Brown isn’t on the radar of most people here, either. And this is a college town, home to the public flagship university. These extraterrestrials are college-educated people, managers in a large insurance firm with headquarters here.</p>
<p>For that matter, I lived in the Amherst, MA area for 15 years. You didn’t have to stray far from the college community to encounter people who were unaware that Brown is considered prestigious. </p>
<p>This thread will probably be locked before the day is out, because this topic inevitably becomes rancorous. The bottom line is, we should all be grateful to live in a country that offers plentiful college choices, and life-style choices. Those who prefer to sacrifice vacations and travel and such things to buy private university educations are free to do so. Those who value travel and vacations as a form of education can pursue alternatives.</p>
<p>My son’s high school record, abilities and drive were first-rate; he chose to pursue merit scholarships at the top schools that offer them, and was successful. My daughter wants to be a large animal vet and is interested in conservation issues; it will be hard for her to beat our state public for those majors and a price that leaves some money left over for vet school, and that will probably be her choice next year.</p>
<p>Lots of options, lots of different roads to consider.</p>
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<p>I agree. I always feel good when a student tells me he/she is happy with the school they are attending.</p>
<p>One more comment-it seems to me as if this topic of prestige vs. cost of school/is it worth it, etc. is discussed a lot on cc. Everyone’s circumstances are unique and maybe we just need to agree to disagree on this one.</p>
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<p>midmo, LOL…………I live in the northwest, a small college town, home to the 2nd largest public U in our state and I have the same extraterrestrials neighbors. If asked about prestigious universities. HY, maybe S (since Clinton) but clearly behind USC, Duke and the military academies. Even Princeton is not on their radar and schools like Amherst, Williams, Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth would produce blank looks. The only exception would be the members of our small Asian community. They are aware of rankings and selectivity; but certain Ivies are not considered prestigious, nor are most selective LACs.</p>
<p>sewhappy…yeah, many colleges depend on lunacy from parents. It seems to me that they’ve caught on that the more they charge, the more attractive they are to students and parents. Well, maybe this recession will turn that thinking around for some. But I know there will always be hold outs. </p>
<p>A good friend of mine with a son at a elite college told me she’s OK with living on the streets when she’s old…the education of her son is her biggest priority. She’s draining her accounts. Sometimes, I feel guilty when I talk to her, like I’m being selfish in wanting to have a roof over my head when I’m 85. Then I think…nah…she’s the one who’s nuts! Lunacy for sure…</p>
<p>midmo…my comment was in reply to something purpleflurp wrote. If you look further up thread, I have already mentioned and agree with you that zillions of people across the country haven’t heard of my kids’ schools. However, the comment of mine you have quoted in post 62 was written in response to purpleflurp who said something where she inferred that my kids could not have been “unaware” of the “awe” factor of their schools…and I was saying that they surely knew that the schools they attended were well known…and I meant well known to someone like themselves who applied to selective schools (yes, the whole world hasn’t heard of these schools). I meant THEY were aware…someone who is applying to colleges in this range would be from another planet if they had not heard of these schools is what I meant…but not the general public and I agree that the general public as a whole may be quite unaware of these schools.</p>
<p>To be more specific with examples…D1 was a top student who was applying to very selective schools and of course she was aware of the name recognition among selective schools of the school she attended…among those who either apply to such schools or those in her career field may know. D2 was applying to BFA in Musical Theater programs and she would have had to know that her eventual university was well known in her intended industry. It may not be well known among everyone in the country but she knew it was well known in her field. She even went to an audition at another university which required her to list all other schools she was applying to on the audition form (and I don’t think that is a fair question) and she only listed some of the schools she applied to and not all. In the interview/audition, they asked, “how come you are not applying to NYU?” She had not listed it and indeed had applied and is now going there. She explained why she preferred the school she was auditioning at over NYU. But even they were asking why hadn’t she applied to this well known school in the industry. She got into that school that asked it too (and that is also a very well regarded school in her field).</p>
<p>With aid, private schools are much cheaper than any public. The top schools give aid to parents making up to $180,000, and only ask 10% of that from families. So for some families, the choices are obvious (at least those with the high-achieving kids who get in to those schools).</p>
<p>We love UMass, but it costs too much!</p>
<p>Another problem that does not come up much here, is that kids with artistic goals (dance, music, art) who are headed to conservatories or art schools, do not have much financial aid available. Our third child is a dancer, and we cannot afford NYU. This is not a choice, it is a fact. Right now, she is not going to college at all, but will try to train through a company program. Some musicians and visual artists do get merit scholarships, but they are paltry compared to the financial aid available in colleges. When you add in the financial insecurity of being an artist, many art/music/dance/theater schools are only for those with enough money not to worry.</p>
<p>I agree with compmom’s first point that many selective private universities have very good FA! In fact, ever since my D graduated from Brown in 2008, the FA policies are FAR better and we would have gotten even way more. However, with two in college at the same time, her need based aid at Brown was substantial and thus overall, more affordable than cheaper colleges they may not have had such good aid. </p>
<p>As far as performing arts…my younger D is in theater. Every school she got into offered her a scholarship. Her largest scholarship was from NYU/Tisch and it was substantial. You don’t know until you apply. She got both merit based and need based aid. We had two in college at one time as well. We also did not think about cost of education vis a vis earnings potential. We paid for their education and continue to pay for it so that they got an education no matter how much they earn in their careers. As far as my arts kid, she just graduated and she is working in her field and is supporting herself (we don’t support our kids when not in school). We are, however, paying for the education.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s much of a dilemma when the choice is Brown or Princeton or Yale vs other privates and states at a HIGHER cost. My goodness, that’s a no-brainer as long as the fit is OK for the particular student. Indeed, these are very fortunate students.</p>
<p>But go one rung down, combine it with an upper middle class income, and you’re looking at hefty tabs. Plunking down 200k for a Vandy, Tufts or BC College vs a quality state school. Now that’s a hard decision, at least in my mind. And no, I’m not talking about families who have mcmansions and new cars. We know quite a few who have dipped into retirement funds to make this work. Yes, it’s their decision, but I will have a hard time mustering up sympathy for these folks when they are destitute in their elder years. There are other ways to do this!</p>
<p>My two cents: I was planning to go to an OOS flagship state school until I got my Vanderbilt acceptance.</p>
<p>I would still be planning to go to the OOS flagship state school if the money hadn’t been there. As it was, both educations came out to about the same. </p>
<p>Cost is everything. And my mom made that very clear to me. :D</p>
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<p>Edit: I tell people I’m going to school “in Nashville” and I think it’s a fine strategy. It usually sparks a reply like “omg, that is such a beautiful area” and I can tell them that I visited the city in April and adored it etc. I don’t think I’m playing any kind of prestige games when I do it, either. (In fact it might even be because in my part of the world people are more familiar with Nashville than the schools within it, and it keeps the conversation flowing.)</p>
<p>I am glad that D had no desire to go to any elite school and has proven to herself that her choice of in-state state school was correct for her. She graduated #1 from school that regularly sends at least couple or more top kids to Ivy’s. Nobody ever said anything insulting to her in regard to her choice. She continue saying that she remain very happy with it after 2 years of college. She found a lot of opportunites there for star students like herself. She is taking advantange of every single of them. People are too hung up on the college names, while college experience depends much more on student than institution, opportunities are all there.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that private schools, with aid, are always cheaper than any public. That is simply not true all the time. My twin sons also had identical ACT scores, identical GPA, and were close on ECs as well… One is at a Large, top 25, private known for good financial aid and meeting full need and the other is at a 3rd tier public. Guess what, both schools met full need in their packages and I only pay EFC. Both sons also with same stafford loan package btw. Sure aid package at the private is bigger but then so are the costs. My out of pocket expenses are identical and that is what matters not the overall size of the package.</p>
<p>Yes some publics offer very good aid packages to students. I don’t think my experience is all that rare. You have to see what the envelope holds, you never can assume that aid will always be better at a private.</p>
<p>Like MiamiDAP’s, my D also chose an in-state public university over the elite schools that accepted her. It was the right “fit” and the right choice for her and she continues to be very happy with her decision.</p>
<p>I believe education is important, I think the majority of us on this board do, or we wouldn’t be here would we? My H went to a “state school”, mostly known for football (and in Texas that is not a bad thing) Our neighbors, 100% education snobs, him Columbia, her Yale and the college does not make them snobs, their attitudes do. When I spoke with her a week or so ago about our D’s disenchantment with New England weather, her comment, “some kids aren’t cut out for the Ivy League” For goodness sake, does she think the Ivy League Presidents control the weather? Probably. haha.</p>
<p>Anyway, Sunday night, movers pulled in front of their house, and a foreclosure noticed went up Monday morning. My point and it is not about glouting, as I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, is that it does not matter where you are educated. What matters is that you do the best you can, and that you educate yourself in reality. Manage your money, make wise choices, protect your family, financially, emotionally, and spiritually. You don’t have to be Ivy league educated to do that. You have to be smart, you have to think smart and you have to act smart. Educate your children inside of your means. That is the best education of all.</p>
<p>I’ve met quite a few people who went to the University of Chicago but, when asked where they went to college, simply reply, “in Chicago.” Then, when pressed, they tell you the name of the school.</p>
<p>I haven’t figured out yet if this is false modesty, real modesty, or simply that they assume no one has heard of the University of Chicago. (I’ve just about ruled out false modesty, since most of the people who do this seem pretty nice.)</p>
<p>Any ideas?</p>
<p>Elite private colleges that meet full need are no doubt good deals for families making less than 180K/year. But the higher you go above that income the more you pay out of pocket. Now it could be argued that families that make more, say 300K/year, should not be too worried about paying 50K/yr for college expenses. But I think that is still a very noticeable expense! Especially if you realize that a very good education can be had at some in-state or OOS publics for 20K-30K/yr.</p>
<p>I think this really depends on the student. I believe you can get a great education at most universities, if the student truly maximizes their opportunities by working closely with faculty, participating in student groups, and becoming involved in the greater community. Name brand prestige typically doesn’t matter with the exception of some careers, like Law - but I don’t think it matters for undergraduate degrees. Its up to the student to maximize tuition dollars.</p>
<p>Good post collegeshopping. </p>
<p>I do think it’s those “education snobs” that overvalue the worth of elite colleges. Going to a top 25 or even top 50 school is very cool, no doubt. And some folks can go for less money than their flagship states. But to assume that those are the only “good” colleges out there is elitist…and WRONG. This type of thinking contributes to some students and parents going WAY over their heads to fund what they think is the best choice. </p>
<p>“Go to the best college you can get into regardless of what the cost is”. Who made this stupid rule?? It’s similar to the thinking that pushed people into big fancy houses with low down payments. We need to get a grip and face reality here.</p>
<p>collegeshopping,
why is it important what other people are saying? The most important is if a kid fit well with school and if you do not need to pay tuition because of Merit $$, believe me, it just adds to this happy feeling. In addition, there are Honors programs and certain majors like pre-med, engineering, IT will not result in being better MD, Engineer or Programmer when you attach elite college to your name. It looks like your neighbors’ Columbia and Yale did not add to their brain power either (according to what they are commenting about colleges). So, what is good education vs so-called “not so good education”? If some people snob at “football” college, I do not have any reason NOT to snob at their desire to be associated with Elite name.</p>
<p>Mantori,
People tend not to hear the “U” in “UChicago,” so S1 usually winds up explaining it. He tries to be low-key about it, but the folks who “know” UChicago understand why he chose to attend. My mom, who lived in Chicago in the 50s and 60s, thought it was a state school. S likes attending a school known for its intellectual prowess more than its prestige factor.</p>
<p>Toneranger, yes, it is a VERY hard decision. One of S2’s top choices is among the schools you mentioned. Worth it? Well, so far he has crossed off a number of other serious candidates from his list (similar strength of program, cost, odds) because he couldn’t justify the cost in his mind for those schools. So, at this point, he has identified some things about his favorite schools that have that value-added component. What happens come April? We’ll see. He has obviously learned something about our financial priorities and spending habits along the way and seems to have internalized some of this. He also sees what options others around him have and feels thankful we haven’t set arbitrary limits for him.</p>