Revival of Middle Class Black Posters

<p>Yes the excitement about moving on, getting out of high school and a little bit of a slump is normal. However I would advise your DD to bounce back especially because there is merit $$ on the table. </p>

<p>Remind her that all college admissions are conditional on :</p>

<p>Successfully completing high school
Maintaining the pretty close to the same grades which got you admitted.</p>

<p>Let her know also that her final transcript must be sent to the college and depending on how low the slump, she could risk her merit $$ or she could start out on probation (I have seen both situations happen).</p>

<p>In addition, these are not good habits to get into (or even start) as she will not have the benefit of having an understanding professor on the other end.</p>

<p>I saw the same thing with my step daughter. Very high flying high school career. She got into Ivy ED. In January she was sprawled on the couch at 8 pm on a week night (VERY unusual). When questioned she replied "I never had a childhood." While trying mightily to stifle an eye roll I recognized she was right. She has spent the last four years getting a 4.9/5 GPA (struggling through AP Physics as a poet), amassing amazing board scores and leadership roles. She really had no "free play" time.</p>

<p>I would suggest you cut your daughter some slack. True, she can't slide far from the path without jeopardizing the very thing she worked so hard to achieve. But I sincerely doubt that the young woman you knew for the last four years would suddenly devolve into Harold and Kumar's friend visiting White Castle.</p>

<p>Practice with me now--deep yoga breath. Deep yoga breath. Shot of scotch. Deep yoga breath.</p>

<p>LOLOL!!! TriG, Harold & Kumar @ Whitecastle was a RIOT! Almost busted a gut on that vid, had no idea it would be so funny! Thanx for the reality check, all. I'll make every effort to remain supportive w/out being overbearing. One. More. Month!</p>

<p>Tmama, she took the free ride @ Brandeis; Good Girl! Very informative presentation during their Accepted Student's Day on study abroad really cemented my belief that the time is NOW to start researching fellowships & the like. </p>

<p>Been struggling w/my own demons of late. 30th Grade School Reunion is fast approaching. REALLY debating whether to go (Egads! Who'll remember me under all this matronly curvage?!). Pulled out the old yearbooks and started leafing through to see if I remembered anyone. Turns out, it's really good timing. Little notes I'd written in the margins of some of the pics were godsends, and now I can remind D how important it's going to be to put names, dates, and notes on HER yearbook pix. Addresses and parents names might be helpful in locating people more than a quarter of a century later as well. It's really a shame that women give up their last names. Makes googling old pals a real hassle. Reunion.com & Classmates.com must be raking in the dough!</p>

<p>Hi All,</p>

<p>I believe DS has narrowed his choices down to Penn or Duke. </p>

<p>As far as senoritis, he has been experiencing it all year. I kept hoping that after submitting his college applications, he would return to "normal". Let's just say that I am still waiting.</p>

<p>Supermom,
I have a co-worker whose daughter graduated from Brandeis several years ago and it was a great experience for her.</p>

<p>So lately I've been ruminating about whether my D is up to the challenge of the "rigor" of attending Duke. While I am increasingly impressed with her ability to juggle her extracurriculars without any helicoptering, it seems that as long as she does enough to keep her "top student" spot, she'd just as soon put academics on the back burner. So I'm checking out African American graduation rates, feeling okay but not great about Dukes numbers, and ended up looking at the following statistics. </p>

<p>Duke 6 year overrall 93.4 AA female 91.6 AA male 81.4 gap -10.2 </p>

<p>but wait...check out the 4 year</p>

<p>Duke 4 year overall 86.9 AA female 88.4 (> overall!) AA male 57.6 gap -30.8 (!!!)</p>

<p>The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap</p>

<p>The bad news is, four year graduation rates for AA's supports my fears that AA's may have more of a struggle ( does this reflect SAT scores? ). The good news is that if you seperate AA girls from boys, the girls graduation rates are actually looking good ( I guess it doesnt have anything to do with SAT scores). This might be good news for my D, but what does it mean? I am even more impressed with my D as I watch her brother complete his first year of HS. If he finishes with a 3.0 it will be a miracle! My D made straight A's look so easy I am wondering if she can handle what's to come. So....what does this AA gender gap mean?</p>

<p>"The bad news is, four year graduation rates for AA's supports my fears that lower than the 50 percentile SAT scores may predict more of a struggle. "</p>

<p>H.S. GPA is a far better predictor of college gpa than are board scores. Older S had board scores at the 98th percentile, 2.9 or so average in a very rigorous curriculum. He was lazy, but did as well as he did because my H and i stayed on his tail.</p>

<p>In college -- a 2nd tier at which his scores made him an automatic admit and and admission to the honors college -- he had a .46. Yes, you read that right. He didn't bother to go to class or to hand in assignments. As you can see, his test scores didn't help. </p>

<p>I saw this same phenomenon when I taught college. I had students with dreadful board scores who graduated summa because anything they struggled with, they addressed by working hard, getting tutoring, talking to the professor, etc. Such students did far better than students with high board scores who didn't believe in studying or going to class.</p>

<p>Remember, too, that students can flunk out for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with ability. They may hate the college, party too much, have financial aid problems, transfer, etc. From what I've seen, particularly the top colleges don't select students who lack the ability to graduate from their college. </p>

<p>Stop worrying. Enjoy your D during the remaining months she'll be at home.</p>

<p>Thanks! I knew you would reassure me.You might notice I edited out the SAT comment; don't want it to come back to haunt anyone....</p>

<p>Given your D's pedigree, I see her being in the percentage of those who sucessfully matriculate from Duke. I see her casting her lot with those that are ambitious and goal oriented. No worries.</p>

<p>I knew this was the right place to come!</p>

<p>Sadly, it's typical for males of all races in our culture to go to and graduate from college at lower rates than is true for women. One of the reasons is that guys are more likely to be in high tech fields in which they can get good pay, but don't need a college ed.</p>

<p>Another reason is that overall, guys perform worse than do females in h.s., so when they go to college are less likely than females to perform well (since h.s. gpa is a good predictor of college gpa).</p>

<p>In addition, when it comes to black males, young black women seem willing to date men who aren't as advanced or as motivated as the women are. This may be because of the relatively low numbers of eligible men when you consider "eligible" as meaning not gay and not in jail. So, the guys don't feel they need to stay in college to get a good woman. Even if the guys make less than the women are and are far less educated, there are many beautiful, intelligent, well employed women who'd be glad to be with them.</p>

<p>Sad, but understandable especially since black women don't get as much opportunity to date outside of their race as do black men.</p>

<p>I suppose that makes sense in an anthropological way...over generations it "works", but are you saying guys in HS don't perform well because they know some one will be willing to marry them anyway? Using my son ( and yours?) as an example, I just don't know. I can't help wondering if there is something related to doing well in the classroom that is missing from most y genes, and since Black man have more than their share.....(joking...). I figure that y gene also carries the "adhd" phenotype, that in some settings is considered a disorder. FWIW, AA fathers of my male patients with ADHD symptoms are usually against medication treatment regardless of the consequences. Anyway I am always so relieved to hear how your sons turned out.</p>

<p>"but are you saying guys in HS don't perform well because they know some one will be willing to marry them anyway?"</p>

<p>No, I think that's more true in college: They're getting dates, so don't worry about being able to get a high status profession to attract women.</p>

<p>In high school, guys tend to admire sports prowess and things like coolness over academic performance. From what I've seen of smart, attractive girls running after dimwits and thugs who happen to be athletes (not suggesting all athletes are like that), seems that many girls are more attracted to athletes than to guys who are academic stars.</p>

<p>It may be that if in previous decades, women had been getting their share of educational opportunities (instead of being turned down for med school, college, etc. due to gender), we'd have seen this kind of imbalance in terms of male/female graduation and college rates since these stats have been being tracked.</p>

<p>When it comes to black males, I've seen with my sons that teachers -- even black ones -- have not expected that much of them. I am not exaggerating by saying that as long as black males breathe and go to class, teachers are happy. If the black males manage to pass the classes -- even with Ds -- the teachers also are happy.</p>

<p>Despite having sons with sky high scores, H and I had to fight to get teachers to take seriously the fact that our sons were underperforming. Heck, a student who has PSATs at the National Merit commended level, yet is getting Cs in classes obviously is underperforming, but teachers actually congratulated my sons on their performances.</p>

<p>Was very hard for H and me to motivate sons when they were getting praise for doing next to nothing. Sons also tended to be the only black males in a rigorous curriculum. For instance, by junior year younger S was the last black male left in his IB program. Something like 17 had entered it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I suppose that makes sense in an anthropological way...over generations it "works", but are you saying guys in HS don't perform well because they know some one will be willing to marry them anyway?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's a new one, but not a far fetched hypothesis. Speaking of anthropology, John Ogbu had the study in Shaker Heights years ago studying the achievement gap of middle class AA. If you google "Rich Black and Flunking", (i think that's what its called) an interesting study on the dynamics of AA academic achievement.</p>

<p>^ I read that. Seemed like parents got bashed a lot if I recall correctly. I know I am rationalizing somewhat. I always say the word "lazy" is not helpful. It sounds like an inborn character flaw that cannot be changed. Instead I try to look at the balance of effort vs. motivation, internal or external. So why does it take so much more motivation to get our boys to succed in the classroom? Surely if it's only a reasonable amount of effort, it would be easier to just do it than to deal with the years of endless badgering ( that has gone on in my house). My D never even needed a reminder to do homework. But my son could play soccer all day and basketball all night, while I'd have to nag my D to do something physical. So I guess I'm trying to put a different spin on this, and see how we can appeal to our boys where they find a little easier success. Or perhaps modify the learning environment to take advantage of their strengths.</p>

<p>Want to hear something really far fetched? What if generations ago Black males heavy on the ADHD phenotype were more successful with the powers that were, than their more scholastically inclined counterparts?</p>

<p>
[quote]
My D never even needed a reminder to do homework. But my son could play soccer all day and basketball all night, while I'd have to nag my D to do something physical. So I guess I'm trying to put a different spin on this, and see how we can appeal to our boys where they find a little easier success. Or perhaps modify the learning environment to take advantage of their strengths.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Same exact dynamic in my home except D is an accomplished student athlete as well. NEVER worry about her getting it done. Now the boys...When you get the answer, please, please PM me! I've got two boys, one on a 504 (ADD), but are above avg intelligence, but aren't reaching their respective potentials. Not bad kids at all but underachieving, IMO. I keep hoping that they will, as I did, find their purpose and then maximize their strengths. It's the uncertainty of when or if they will, but, I'm going to try do my best, and leaving the rest to the Man.</p>

<p>Years ago when I was in junior high, the assistant principal recommended that I read John Holt's first book, How Children Fail. </p>

<p>Amazon.com:</a> How Children Fail (Classics in Child Development): John Holt: Books </p>

<p>The revised edition of that book is still a good read. I can't remember if it's in that book, or in Holt's next book, How Children Learn, where the comment is made that school is an environment that favors the habits of girls. Holt wondered then, and I wondered then and still wonder today, how boys can best develop in such a girl-friendly environment.</p>

<p>Well, I'd respond now, but I'm off to pick up sone from BBall practice. D is at the movies earning "extra credit".</p>

<p>Expelled:</a> No Intelligence Allowed (2008) - Movie Info - Yahoo! Movies</p>

<p>"Holt wondered then, and I wondered then and still wonder today, how boys can best develop in such a girl-friendly environment."</p>

<p>Despite all of that, with rare exception, guys are still running the country. Interesting....</p>

<p>"What if generations ago Black males heavy on the ADHD phenotype were more successful with the powers that were, than their more scholastically inclined counterparts?"</p>

<p>There are some interesting books by a guy name Thom Hartman, who suggests that ADD/ADHD was an attribute in hunter gather societies. The distractabiity would mean a quicker ability to spot prey, for instance</p>

<p>Probably also helps with many computer games in modern society.</p>

<p>Both sons are ADD or ADHD, and I'm ADHD. I do think of this as being positive attributes for all of us -- as long as no one expects us to deliver when things are boring.</p>

<p>guy name Thom Hartman'...read that one too..hunters and gatherers...my son has taken stimulants since he was 4. I hate to label him as I really see it as a phenotype or tempermant. Nevertheless, even now at 15, a day without meds is bound to be followed with referrals or detention. My brother was the same, although no label or treatment. He and I joke he was my first patient, as I was largely responsible for him and his shenanigans as a child. BTW, he was just nominated for a grammy...years after dropping out of college but returniing and finishing for my mom. Northstarmom did your boys take meds and for how long? What about yours madville?</p>