Rice vs Iowa...URGENT! I have only two days to decide!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Rice University
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<p>Hello, all!</p>

<p>So, I found out yesterday that I've been offered a spot off Rice University's wait list (just two days after my orientation at UIowa, interestingly enough). </p>

<p>While I'm very excited about this opportunity to attend Rice, my parents and I would like to find concrete evidence that the advantages I get out of attending Rice (vs. Iowa) are worth the ~40k a year I'll have to pay. </p>

<p>Yes, I know very well that Rice has been ranked number one for quality of life by the PR for the past 4,000 years or so. I'm also aware that, relative to its level of competitiveness, Rice offers a very nurturing learning environment that is only very slightly cutthroat, if at all. There are also probably a hundred thousand different immeasurable benefits (in terms of how I would change as a student, socialite, etc) I'd also experience as a student at Rice. However, if I'm to attend Rice, I'd like to see some measurable distinction between Rice and Iowa in terms of how attending them will help me succeed in the future. </p>

<p>My ultimate goal is to become a physician (hopefully an md/phd, though let's not jump the gun). I've seen the statistic that 90% of Rice students who apply to medical schools get into at least one. I haven't been able to find a comparable one for UIowa. If one of you wonderful people happen to have one, or know where I can find one, or know another relevant statistic, that might just settle this matter immediately.</p>

<p>If you don't, I'd still really appreciate your general feedback. I'll outline the general pros of each below:</p>

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<p>RICE:</p>

<p>-In any case, I’m planning on applying to the Carver College of Medicine at the University of Iowa as a resident. So attending Rice, in my opinion, should only marginally decrease my odds of getting into Carver. At the same time, I think attending Rice will drastically improve my chances of getting into a medical school in Texas, and will also boost my chances of getting into a big-league med school. Do any of you agree?</p>

<p>-A chance to see what there is to see. I LOVE Iowa City. Love it love it love it love it love it. But I’ve lived most of my life here, and since there’s a very good chance I’ll be going to med school here anyway (not to mention that in any case, I’ll probably be spending my summers in Iowa City), maybe it’ll be good for me to experience life somewhere else. Can anyone think of any practical benefits that would arise from this?</p>

<p>-I’ll mature much faster. I’ll gladly admit that I’m a protected child. I don’t think that’ll change too much if I keep on living at home. Again, can anyone think of practical benefits?</p>

<p>-a Speech team! My parents have told me a hundred times that I should only consider medicine-relevant factors in regards to this decision, but Speech was my biggest non-academic passion in high school. Iowa doesn’t have a college speech team–I suppose I could argue that medical schools are looking for applicants with interesting/distinguishing passions and activities…but again, I need something concrete.</p>

<p>-High faculty to student ratio. My undergrad class at Iowa will be 4000. My undergrad class at Rice will be ~935. I’m not really in a position to say that one number is better than the other, but the argument that I’ll get to know my classmates/professors better at Rice makes sense to me.</p>

<p>-a broader hospital volunteering experience. Currently, I volunteer in the Neurology Intermediate Inpatient Unit at the University of Iowa Hospitals. It’s fantastic in so many ways–however, I do think I could benefit from broadening my hospital volunteering experience. The way I see it, if I go to Rice, I will volunteer somewhere in the Texas Medical Center during the school year and at the University of Iowa Hospitals during the summer. While, in my opinion, quality>quantity as far as volunteering is concerned, I do think that a broader hospital volunteering experience will offer practical benefits. </p>

<p>-Texas. I was actually born in Texas! I have loads of relatives/family friends in/near Houston, and even a few family friends who are at Rice. While on the whole, I think I’ll get better mentorship at UIowa (see below), my family friends/relatives will definitely help compensate for this deficiency. </p>

<p>-awesome alumni-ness. Alright, I know that I’m 17, and that it’s unnatural for a kid of my age to think this long-term. But I really, really do want to become part of Rice’s alumni network. First of all, I’ll have all sorts of awesome connections. Additionally, I’ll be able to help along the future college admissions process by interviewing (and through these interviews, advising) the college students of the future–this is something that really, REALLY appeals to me, and I won’t be able to do it if I go to Iowa. </p>

<p>-reversibility. There’s some rule, somewhere, that when given a choice between a reversible option and a irreversible option, one should favor the reversible one. If I find that I’m not getting any significant benefits at Rice that I wouldn’t get at Iowa, I’ll always have the option of transferring back. But that won’t work the other way around. Most of the people I’ve talked to think this is a great argument–unfortunately, my parents don’t. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can strengthen it?</p>

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<p>IOWA:</p>

<p>-I’ll be going for free! In fact, I’ll have a little surplus scholarship money left over. Rice, in contrast, will cost me 40k this year. To be fair, I’ll be eligible for merit scholarships after this year, so there’s a decent chance that this figure will go down over time…but my worst-case scenario is $160,000 over four years. I don’t think the money is a HUGE issue–while I’m by no means filthy rich, my parents will be able to pay a very decent chunk of my college costs. I’ll take out loans for the rest…as long as I become a doctor in the end, which I’m very firmly committed to being, I think I’ll be alright. At the same time, I know that I shouldn’t underestimate the sheer value of $160,000. If I attend Rice, I’ll be re-paying loans for at least a few years longer than I would be otherwise. My siblings are quite a bit younger than me, so hopefully my Rice tuition won’t hugely cripple my parents’ ability to pay for their educations, but that possibility is also something that I have to consider. Therefore, I have to know for sure (or as close to “sure” as is possible) that Rice is worth the money.</p>

<p>-I won’t have to spend as long repaying loans. One of my parents calculates that if I borrow $100,000 in loans (for undergrad) at a 5% interest rate and wait through eighteen years of schooling to start paying them off, after which I have a salary of $300,000, I’ll probably only have enough disposable income to pay $4000 a month towards my loans. At this rate, it will take me roughly 10 years to clear my undergraduate debt. Something about these numbers seems off to me. Do any of you know how realistic they are?</p>

<p>-My coursework probably won’t be all that different. From what I’ve heard, undergraduate education is incredibly standardized. One could say that, by attending Iowa, I’ll be getting the same product in slightly inferior packaging for $40,000 cheaper. THAT sounds like a pretty good deal.</p>

<p>-I know the place and the people. I already have connections with many of the professors who’ll be teaching my classes, and at Iowa, unlike at Rice, I won’t be distracted by a new and confusing environment. If I go to Rice, in contrast, I’ll be an Iowan out of…cornfield. D:</p>

<p>-One should not underestimate the power of a home-cooked meal and a laundry machine.</p>

<p>-My family! I’m very, very, very close with my family, and I’d really hate to leave them. More critically, I’m the only person in my family who takes care of my pet birds. While my parents will certainly be able to provide for their basic necessities while I’m away, they won’t provide the love and attention that I do. Fortunately, Skype is an option–it won’t be the same as playing with them in person, but it’ll help. </p>

<p>-Research. I’ve interned at various labs around the University of Iowa for the past three years. If I choose to attend Iowa, I know for a fact that I’ll be able to keep on working at my current lab throughout all four years. I’m already involved in a research project that could very well get my name on a publication, and there’ll be plenty more where this’ll come from. I’m throwing that away if I go to Rice–while I’ll likely be able to keep working in this lab during summers, that might not be enough to get me some tangible results. Now, I’m sure that I’ll be able to find a wonderful research opportunity at Rice as well–however, I’ll most likely only be able to work there during the school year. Again, that might not be enough to get me some tangible results. Moreover, at my current lab, I’m surrounded by a wonderful group of people who will doubtlessly provide me excellent mentorship throughout my time at UIowa. I can’t guarantee that I’ll get the same experience at Rice. </p>

<p>-I really do love this place and this university. Through research internships and visits by professors to my high schools, I’ve already gotten a taste of how wonderful UIowa is. I’m sure Rice is wonderful too…the question is, is it wonderful enough to boost my chances of getting into medical school?</p>

<hr>

<p>Now, most of the books I’ve read about pre-medicine skim over the subject of “picking an undergrad school” in less than a page. They seem, as a whole, confident that the pre-med school itself is far less significant than what a student will DO at that school. I can’t say for sure whether I’ll do better at Rice or at Iowa–so maybe Iowa does win out, because of its significantly lower costs. But my gut says “Rice.” </p>

<p>And while numerous people have told me that I should go with my gut instinct, I just don’t think that’s responsible given Rice’s tremendous costs. I really, really need some hard evidence–and I’d really appreciate it if someone here could find me some.</p>

<p>Thank you all so much for reading (at least a portion of) this massive wall of text; please respond quickly, because I only have until Monday to decide!</p>

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<p>If you want to become a doctor, it doesn’t really matter which school you attend… because as many others on here have mentioned, med schools care about GPA and MCATs. Not where you did your undergrad.</p>

<p>So for $40k less, become a Hawkeye and don’t look back. You’ll probably have a great time while getting a very solid education.</p>

<p>It isn’t called DUIowa for nothing though – leave your car at home if you want to party.</p>

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<p>Iowa. Especially since you want to go to med school. Not even a question unless your family is very, very wealthy.</p>

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<p>What are the actual cost difference–are you saying it is 40k vs 0? </p>

<p>It is a luxury level spending to me. Some people have money to spend on luxury goods and services and don’t mind paying up. There are also some parents on this forum that consider sending their kids to an expensive college was a priority for the family and felt it was worth sacrifices. I don’t know your family.</p>

<p>I don’t know what you mean by concrete evidence of advantages. No one can predict outcomes for you. There is concrete evidence of things like class size. Prob you can find evidence of more undergrads doing research. Med school numbers are funny, if you haven’t looked into it, read some in the premed forum. (It doesn’t address people who are weeded out or not given committee letters, it seems.)</p>

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<p>I’m a parent…we’ve visited Rice with my children. I’ve not been to Iowa. Try to imagine a year from now…will you look back and regret that you didn’t go to the other school? Do you see yourself enjoying the campus life and new experiences at one school versus the other? It sounds like Iowa is more known and it is an easier transition. Is that what you want? </p>

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<p>Iowa. $100k debt is too much if med school’s on your horizon.</p>

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<p>What you are talking about debt near 100k? There is nothing to discuss then. Go to Iowa.</p>

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<p>My fiance and I live in Cedar Rapids. If you get sick of the dorm food, you can get a home-cooked meal now and then at our house. Hehe </p>

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<p>You love Iowa and it’s affordable. If money wasn’t an issue ( and taking out $100k in loans is crazy imo) then I would suggest Rice because, well, it’s a great school and studying in another part of the country is very appealing to me. UIowa’s hospital right on campus is a big plus with lots of opportunity for those willing to seek it out which you sound like you’ve already done. Good for you! You will do well, but save your $ for medical school – you’ll need it.</p>

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<p>@JedBread‌ All of the above comments are focused on money, which is completely valid. But just to give you variety of opinion, here is a reasonable cost-blind comparison of the two schools. </p>

<p>You will undoubtedly get a more than marginally better education at Rice if you apply yourself. The professors are great and the coursework is HARD. There’s a lot to be said for that and it will, in fact, help you when it comes to medical school, both before and during. If you are in the honors program at Iowa, it will lessen the gap some, but the fact remains that you will be challenged much more at Rice. </p>

<p>I think that the connections you have right now are good in terms of research. But it’s very easy to get research on and off campus at Rice if you just take the initiative and ask/apply. The TMC is the largest medical center in the world, and Rice is across the street, and having previous research experience will also help you. </p>

<p>Rice also has a nationally renowned residential college system that provides extraordinary familial support to students. There’s no substitute for living that close to home, but between Rice and Iowa, Rice will stand alone much better in terms of quality of life and support. It’s also just a really really fun place to be with awesome people everywhere. </p>

<p>So that is a comparison if price is no object. Of course in real life it is, and you’ll have to think really hard about what experience you want in college, what your goals are, and how important that money is to you and your future. I’m assuming you have been told by Rice what your financial aid package is already. </p>

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<p>Missed this the first time. You are close to your family. How would you feel if your choice now circumscribed your siblings’ choices later?</p>

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<p>You should check with an actual doctor. Medical malpractice insurance costs are huge, and there have been a rising chorus of complaints from practicing doctors now about how between that, lowered reimbursement rates, and high costs of bureaucracy, they are getting really squeezed.</p>

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<p>I would vote for Iowa as well. Save your money for an awesome medical school.</p>

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<p>It depends. What type of doctor do you want to be? Do you want to be a pediatrician or general practicioner where you won’t be making that much money? Or are you going to go into a specialty like dermatology or oncology? If it were the later, I would go to Rice because you will likely have a higher starting salary to pay off your loans. If it is the former, I would go to Iowa because it would take you much longer to pay off your loans. </p>

<p>Also, please do consider your siblings. My brother has two kids. The first one went to college full pay for about $55,000 and flunked out and landed himself in community college. Now, even though my brother in in the top 5% of wage earners in America and his youngest won’t qualify for any need based aid, he is giving her a strict budget of $10,000 yearly for going to school even though that $10,000 is much less than the cost of the state flagship school. So now, she is suffering in her search for colleges because her top schools don’t offer merit aid at all and her state school wouldn’t give her enough to bring the total COA down to $10,000. Really unfortunate situation for her. </p>

<p>But please be mindful that your decisions affect your siblings. It may not be in the same exact way, but it will limit the money they have for school by a lot.</p>

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<p>Iowa- the chance to graduate with out debt. Wow- and cheaper for transportation back and forth.
But leave your options open for medical school. You don’t have to decide now. </p>

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<p>My PhD uncle got his BS at Rice – great school, and nobody is knocking it. But <em>based on your chosen field</em> the extra money your parents and you would have to spend would make little sense. You can get into Johns Hopkins Med from U Iowa as easily as you can from Rice.</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much for your feedback!</p>

<p>Just a few points of clarification:</p>

<ol>
<li>Saying that my tuition costs could “hugely cripple” my parents’ ability to pay for my siblings’ college educations was an exaggeration on my part. While the 40k a year will definitely be a strain on my household’s finances (not to mention that I’ll have to worry about loans later), it probably won’t be crippling anybody…especially since my siblings won’t be entering college for six over a decade.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>What’s true, though, is that while I can’t say exactly what impact my Rice tuition will have on my siblings’ ability to afford college, it probably won’t be a positive one. On the other hand, if I excel at Rice, it may inspire my siblings to work harder in school to attend higher-tier schools of their own. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>While I can’t say for sure what kind of doctor I want to be, I’m almost positive that I want to specialize. Right now, neurology is looking very interesting to me. I might even decide to go to neurosurgery. All the same, I agree with many of you that $100k is a LOT of money, and that an immeasurable and un-guarantee-able “richer experience” likely isn’t worth it. But IS that “richer experience” immeasurable and un-guarantee-able? In my parents’ words, Rice is worth it if I can prove that I have even slightly better odds of getting into med school from there. If not, then oh well–I’ll have a great time at Iowa! </p></li>
<li><p>I actually live IN Iowa City, and I’ll be staying at home if I go to UIowa. So transportation costs will be 0 and distance from family will be 0.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I’d really appreciate some more feedback!</p>

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<p>100k debt is daunting on its own–but you haven’t factored in the additional probably higher debt you would accrue in medical school. And your assumption of 300k income is questionable. With the changes in healthcare no one knows what incomes will do but most likely will fall. And if you do end up in a high paying specialty that is after up to 7 years of residency and fellowship, plus that isn’t a starting salary, that’s something you ramp up to after working a few years. Your loans become due when you graduate. So that’s 10 years of repayment with limited income. </p>

<p>I so hear your excitement about Rice but you have no guarantee of merit aid after this year. You are putting your and your family’s financial future in jeopardy. Sorry, but you need that reality check. </p>