<p>What do you do when your kid's teacher talks them out of taking a class for CAPP credit? Meanwhile GC doesn't think it matters to colleges for showing rigor to college admissions but high school's new college counselor does think it will mean he can't say my kid took most rigorous coursework. I guess teacher thinks kid is busy and doesn't need the extra work. Kid IS busy ( mega ECs and academic workload) and not one to question the teacher. Kid entered HS taking classes typically for sophs, jr. and sr students and will exhaust Eng and Math offerings this year. Has 4 AP classes this year( the most available right now) and completed one last year with 5 on test. There may have been a handful of kids go through the school with this level of rigor, but not many. Will a college advisor really make their recommendation based on one class? Is it one general statement? i.e. yes, student took most rigorous coursework, or based on one class, student did not take most rigorous classwork? I am going to try to find out from teacher why they talked kid out of it but then I don't know if I should try to persuade her that it will help on kid's transcripts ( for rigor). Kid will most likely take the class in college for major, so is not trying to get out of something or is really concerned about the credits. Does anyone have any insight or experience with this?</p>
<p>Since the GC will indicate whether your kid is taking the most rigorous load or not, that is who I’d ask.</p>
<p>We had exactly this situation with my daughter when she switched schools in 11th grade. The new school wouldn’t let her into a couple of AP classes, and the next year the GC refused to check the “most rigorous” box because she hadn’t taken those classes and most of the educationally ambitious top-student types had.</p>
<p>We tore our hair out. We weren’t aware of the problem, or its importance, until over a year after the critical choices had been made. That was Before CC for me.</p>
<p>Things worked out just fine for my daughter, but I am certain this hurt her somewhat in the college acceptance derby. It’s high on the list of things I would change if I could live that year over again.</p>
<p>The “rigor” question is not either/or. This is the actual question:</p>
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<p>But no more detail is requested unless the GC offers it supplementally. It’s not hard to think that the line between “most demanding” and “very demanding” could turn on one or two courses.</p>
<p>If it were my kid, I would go by what works best for the kid in the present, and not up the stress or distract from real EC interests just so he could get that rating from the GC. </p>
<p>Besides, the GC can explain to the colleges, or your child can insert a note saying that EC’s were important enough to warrant not taking that last AP.</p>
<p>I think the kid’s record has to stand on it’s own apart from the vagaries of a guidance counselor determining “most demanding” vs “very demanding”. Obviously schools are able to determine how the record compares to other applicants.</p>
<p>That’s how the question is actually worded? That doesn’t make sense. What good does it do to compare your child’s classes to everyone else? Shouldn’t the question be: did your child take the most rigorous class for them? </p>
<p>S’14 has a learning disability. For him to take even one AP is challenging, but of course if you compare him to kids in his class who are now on their 4th AP, it isn’t.</p>
<p>Thanks, JHS, for including the actual question. I wasn’t sure how it was worded and “in comparison to the other college prep students at your school” is interesting. In that case it would be hard to say that my student’s course was not “most rigorous”. However if it said the most rigorous “available at the school”, maybe the counselor would base their decision on one class? In any case it is all up to what that particular counselor decides, right? Has anyone ever asked their HS college GC which box they would select on this question before they decided which schools to apply to? An uninformed student could be applying to very selective schools thinking that he/she was taken the most rigorous not knowing that the counselor had a zero threshold viewpoint and would appraise the course of study as “very demanding” instead.</p>
<p>I would ask adcom of UGs that kid will apply. It is their job to answer all inquiries and they do it very well. No guessing games. Straight question, straight answer.</p>
<p>Agree with OHMom and MiamiDAP.</p>
<p>I know my kids’ GC took the position “no Calculus AP, no most demanding”. I think his acid test for most demanding was 6+ APs, all other classes honors if available, and the APs had to include Calculus BC and at least one lab science. It did NOT have to include Physics CE (or else only about 8-10 kids/year would qualify, not all of whom were competitive for top colleges).</p>
<p>The important thing to remember is that maybe there are 20-30 institutions where “most demanding” is essentially a requirement for un-hooked students, or close to it. When you get to the very next layer of college selectivity, I’m sure “very demanding” is just fine. So unless you have your heart set in playing for the lottery colleges, it isn’t worth stressing about.</p>
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<p>If your kid is aiming for these top schools, take whatever classes are necessary to obtain the “most demanding” designation. It’s usually listed as one of the most important selection criteria.</p>
<p>classof2015: that is exactly how it is written; it becomes more complicated in schools, like JHS’s D’s where they do not “allow” you to take certain AP classes…you do make a great point though…!</p>
<p>Around here, you must test into AP’s in certain HS’s and in others, you will not be permitted into unless you have an “A” in the previous honors section…that needs to be explained by the guidance office, but often it is not, nor is it on the school profile…</p>
<p>And, yes, Hs’s have cut-offs for checking off the “most rigorous”; there is a story about a young man in our local HS who literally hounded his guidance counselor a few years ago to check off that box; brought her flowers, cookies etc…to no avail…he only had 5 AP courses and our HS cut-off was 6; and, yes, if you do not take AP calculus here, you cannot get the “most rigorous” designation…</p>
<p>It sounds like the new college counselor and/or GC should just mark “most rigorous,” since your child is taking a more rigorous schedule than most other students. Can you have a conversation with them together and nail it down? Clarify that the colleges your child is applying to will find this meaningful, and you don’t want to lessen his chances.</p>
<p>I used to worry about this but came to the conclusion that it was about the education and developing a love of learning, not getting the box checked. If your kid is taking 4 APs, you should not be worrying about getting the box checked. </p>
<p>There are impossible combinations of APs at our school. There is a very real risk in flaming out under the stress of the theoretically most demanding course load. The way it works is the kid gets too little sleep and each week his/her ability to concentrate deteriorates causing them to fall further and further behind. No way to catch up since the class doesn’t slow down long enough. AP Bio in conjunction with an AP History is a classic deadly combination because of the reading loads. </p>
<p>The risk of this happening is greater in my opinion, then the risk that a school rejects a kid who takes 4 APs at a time because he/she didn’t take the theoretically most rigorous course load. I’ve seen it happen at lot.</p>
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I absolutely agree with CRD.</p>
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<p>One should never let one’s formal education destroy one’s love of learning. That said, real learning is more likely to take place in college than in cookie-cutter high school classes. It’s worth it to jump through a few hoops at the lower HS level to get a shot at a more selective college or flagship honors program.</p>
<p>I would ask the question straight up to guidance so you will know what you are dealing with. I heard of different definitions from different high schools, and it does no good knowing what someone else’s school does.</p>
<p>Thanks, ClassicRocker. You’re right, of course. This kid has always had an enthusiastic love of learning. Thanks for putting some things into perspective. I do worry this year that the “joy of learning” may be hindered by the ‘grind it out’ mentality. They ask more and more from the most involved kids but there is no let- up from any front-academics, ECs leadership,etc. I guess it just doesn’t seem quite right that one person can qualify your kid’s entire 4 yr HS career in a “most” vs. “very” vs. “average” designation and have it be weighed so heavily. I really think that if all of the teachers/advisors/directors/conductors/coaches that know this kid were surveyed they would be surprised to find out that the student might be described as being on a less than “most demanding” pathway through school.</p>
<p>If your child has that many AP’s under his belt and has exhausted the offerings in English and Math, then I would think it would be evident to an ADCOM that he has taken the most rigorous course load. Further, is it not the job of the College Counselor and GC to make your child look as good as possible to the admissions committees? He should be going out of his way to check that box!</p>
<p>This is shocking to me. I thought there was a range of the “most demanding…” meaning that many students could get this box checked even if they took different courses from one another, (for example student 1: 4 APs, a Computer Science class and Finance class, and student 2: 5 APs and a less academically challenging class such asart). I did not realize it is x number of APs.</p>