<p>As much as I dislike AA I have to agree with you. It has gotten to the point there is almost no solution. One can hope with some kind of AA program there will be better integration. The separation there is so vivid. They have only themselves to blame. But I sincerely doubt they will do much about it, at least not until absolutely forced. That's the way of the French. I think we are approaching the breaking point, where admittedly something must be done. And the Muslims must also be willing to make things work- try to encourage better integration. It must come from both sides. But the French will have to make the first step, or I think things will only get worse.</p>
<p>Well, no I'm more willing to place the blame on the Muslims. They're the ones who wanted to immigrate to France, so it's really their job to mingle into French culture and adopt their language and adapt into their economic climate. One of the London drivers in fact drove a Mercedes benz before the bombing. Now is that not a total contradiction. I suppose they're not like the islamofacists in the Middle east, but their passiveness and refusal to change combined with the incompetent socialist French government makes for a very unsavory amalgamation I think. Basically, the French are ****ed.</p>
<p>Does this remind anyone else of some of the riots that happened after the Rodney King incident?</p>
<p>or pre world war II?</p>
<p>I love capitalism.</p>
<p>Uhh, the riots in France are not caused by capitalism. France's economy is very centralized in case you didn't know.</p>
<p>kinglin: wow
sethblue: i agree with u</p>
<p>my bad sethblue</p>
<p>"sethblue: thank you"</p>
<p>clarification?</p>
<p>this is like if there were riots in the US in New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, Houston, and DC. I feel very strongly that if this was the case, the US government would have come in with the National Guard a long time ago.</p>
<p>here's a country map with locations of riots:
<a href="http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/FrenchFlashpoints.gif%5B/url%5D">http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/FrenchFlashpoints.gif</a></p>
<p>officials are claiming riots are coming to an end, since only 400 cars were torched last night instead of 1500 at the peak of the riots
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051113/ap_on_re_eu/france_rioting_fr1%5B/url%5D">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051113/ap_on_re_eu/france_rioting_fr1</a></p>
<p>what are u trying to say soccerguy?</p>
<p>"my bad sethblue"</p>
<p>nah, I've just encountered one too many sarcastic thanyou's on here.</p>
<p>France is a hell of a lot different than the US. I think we should all realize that. Bringing in the national guard would make it worse. </p>
<p>The problem with the Muslims is true. And I give them a fair amount of blame. But I also feel the France is to blame for allowing the uncontrolled immigration and giving them citizenship with no strings attached. </p>
<p>The Muslim problem is also true in Spain, England, the Netherlands and Germany as well. They don't integrate. Look at the problems with Islamic violence in the Netherlands now. Its just gotten ridiculous. None of these countries should have allowed this much immigration and tolerance for non-integration.</p>
<p>scarletheavy, I think you are completely wrong about everything.</p>
<p>And "the Muslim problem"? Are you kidding me?</p>
<p>please state why she is wornd wraider, and we might actually be able to have a discussion, because if you had read through the first page of this, you'd know what she means by a "muslim problem".</p>
<p>What exactly does "integration" mean? It's one of those vague terms like "life" or "existence" that is like a political Mad Libs. Too often, I think what it can mean is the acknowledgement of inferiority and subservience by a minority group to the majority powers. Somebody please tell me what it means.</p>
<p>Yes, it's a "Muslim problem". I think we'd all be suffering from blindness when we cannot see the expected clash between devout Muslims and a secular French culture. If integration means adopting the French secular lifestyle, it means that Muslims would have to give up their headscarves and all other distinctive signs of their religion; many are not willing to do that. Secularism, after all, is a way of life just like religion is. Muslims, more than any other religious people, feel like their faith is under attack.</p>
<p>Seth Blue, when I was refering to capitalism, I wasn't talking about the French economy, but rather our own economy. I am happy we live in a free market society.</p>
<p>Hey seth blue, I did read the first page, I know what the discussion is about. So why don't you take a seat, huh?</p>
<p>It's not the "Muslim problem". It's the entire country's problem. By saying it is the Muslim problem make it seem as if all of Europes's problems are the fault of Muslims. Which it is clearly not.</p>
<p>And also the "Muslim problem" reminds me of Hitler and the Nazis trying to figure out how to solve "the Jewish problem" a little more than 50 years ago. So I don't think it is a wise choice of words.</p>
<p>wraider:</p>
<p>are u trying to say that the french government is acting like hitler?</p>
<p>"What exactly does "integration" mean? It's one of those vague terms like "life" or "existence" that is like a political Mad Libs. Too often, I think what it can mean is the acknowledgement of inferiority and subservience by a minority group to the majority powers. Somebody please tell me what it means.</p>
<p>Yes, it's a "Muslim problem". I think we'd all be suffering from blindness when we cannot see the expected clash between devout Muslims and a secular French culture. If integration means adopting the French secular lifestyle, it means that Muslims would have to give up their headscarves and all other distinctive signs of their religion; many are not willing to do that. Secularism, after all, is a way of life just like religion is. Muslims, more than any other religious people, feel like their faith is under attack."</p>
<p>How "integrate" is too ambiguous a term, I'll never know, but never mind that. Do you realize that the cause of these riots(that are now spreading to places outside of Paris) was caused precisely by Muslims' "unwillingness to give up their headscarves" and whatnot. You have to admit that those Muslims that immigrate to France in hopes finding freedom, peace, and economic opportunities to apply their entrepreneurial talents have a "responsibility" to at least attempt to comply with French culture. </p>
<p>You have to realize that Islamic tenets have this tendency to clash with French ones. Additionally, Muslims who reject the West are engaged in a losing and impossible inner jihad, or struggle, to expunge everything that is not Muslim from themselves. It's not an option that's socially, or economically feasible. You cannot believe that a return to a seventeeth century Arabia is all--sufficient for human requirements these days. </p>
<p>Besides, these Muslim fundamentalists cannot hope to forgo the appurtenances of Western life. The taste of it is already too deeply implanted in their souls. Muslims who therefore think that theirs is the life they truly want to live, are simply denying themselves the truth. </p>
<p>I think that the afore mentioned incompetency of the socialist French government also contributed to these riots. After all, the blame cannot all be attributed to the Muslims. Nevertheless, it's important, methinks, to be clear on which part did what to make this all happen. The French have traditionally had quite a centralized government, which means that a lower class citizen has no opportunity to become more. </p>
<p>Anyway, I'm just scratching the surface. The French have had a long history of revolutions and whatnot, I'm sure they'll be fine. Like I said previously, maybe they should take up Affirmative Action, something they've avoided like uhh kids avoid vegetables.(yeah I know, terrible analogy, you think of a better one, please).</p>
<p>surfed_pipeline:</p>
<p>no, not at all. I don't think the "Muslim problem" is a good way to describe the situation in Europe, that is all.</p>
<p>"And also the "Muslim problem" reminds me of Hitler and the Nazis trying to figure out how to solve "the Jewish problem" a little more than 50 years ago. So I don't think it is a wise choice of words."</p>
<p>okay...you cannot possibly be trying to find parallels between these riots in France to Hitler's treatment of Jews can you? Bad comparison you tried to draw there.</p>
<p>Wraider, if you have a problem with "Muslim problem", what's a better way to characterize this? What's with all this sensitivity anyway.</p>