Rising Junior Chances for Penn Vagelos Dual Degree, Harvard, Stanford, MIT? (updated profile)

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hi everyone, I posted a WAMC a while ago, but my profile and goals have changed a little bit so I am posted an updated chances post. Please help, and thanks in advance!

Schools Applying to (in this order):

  1. UPenn Vagelos LSM Dual Degree (ED)
  2. Harvard
  3. Stanford
  4. MIT
  5. Rest of UPenn (CAS/Wharton)
  6. Columbia
  7. Yale
  8. Duke
  9. Cornell
  10. Northwestern
  11. WashU
  12. UChicago

State: Missouri
School Type: Large Public High School (2400-2500 people)
Demographics: Indian Male, Middle - Upper Middle Class

Test Scores:

ACT: 35 (E 36/M 36/R 33/S 35) with 10 on writing
PSAT/NMSQT: 1500 as a sophomore
SAT II: World History 800
APs: Calc BC (5), World History (5), Physics 1 (5), Comp Sci A (5)
Junior Year APs: Chemistry, Lang, Stats, Spanish, Physics 2
Senior Year APs: Bio, Physics C, Econ, Psych, Seminar
GPA: 4.0 UW/4.52 W (4.73 if all A’s junior year)
Rank: No rank, but top 1% of 600 person class

Clubs/Extracurriculars:

Outside school

  1. Student researcher in neuroimaging at Washington University in St. Louis under a major consortium under key professor for national project; writing paper (second author) and will be submitting by the end of this semester (around November/December) probably in Neuroimage
  2. Current summer intern (and continuing into school year) at a neuro-opthalmalogy lab at the University of Pennsylvania on neuroimaging and visual connections with brain; writing paper (first author) and will be submitting by end of semester (October/November) probably in Journal of Vision

Note: This is was my summer internship for this year, this was an independent project that I secured by emailing the PI and getting a rec from my professor at WashU. He doesn’t actually take High School interns, but he made an exception because of my unique background and experience. He basically paid for me to come to Philly and it’s also a paid internship, so it’s quite substantial. It’s also a great experience to be at Penn (alone) for the summer bc it’s my dream school!

  1. Starting a research project (as a research assistant) at Wharton (Penn's Business School) under one of the most renowned professors of neuroeconomics this fall. Working on the relationship between neural characteristics and advertising methods. He basically founded the field in the late 1990s/early 2000s by writing some very interesting papers on them and is one of the most famous professors here on campus, especially because he works in Wharton, Perelman (school of medicine), and the college (in the department of psychology).
  2. Working with an NYC-based neuroinformatics startup on PET imaging analysis as a collaborator (not super substantial but it's a great experience)
  3. Founder and CEO of a global youth-driven consulting agency that works with small-scale high-potential startups in emerging markets like West Africa, Southeast Asia, and parts of Latin America. Currently working on major deals with companies in countries across the world, and also have a team stationed in many different countries. We have already secured close to $2-3K in corporate deals with over 4-5 companies in the first month.
  4. Started a small company that collaborates with STL startups to build partnership networks of biotech and medtech companies. This wasn't something I did for profit, more to help establish connections between companies in the community. I am no longer working on this as I began my other startup.
  5. Midwestern Outreach Administrator for a youth-driven national non-profit educational equity startup seeking to provide more academic opportunities for students of all backgrounds across the US.
  6. Taekwondo athlete for ~10 years. Instructor at my local Taekwondo school and state/national level competitor (gold medalist at Missouri and Illinois state, silver medalist at Kansas state)

Inside School

  1. Founder/President of Students for the Advancement of Interdisciplinary Science, a club/organization that aims to explore and educate students about the alternative opportunities one has outside the traditional clinical medicine or hard bench science. We explore different career paths that integrate these aspects of science into different fields like business, marketing, law, etc. It's actually based off a similar student society I learned about at UPenn, so I got the help of the Penn student to found this in my local community.
  2. Founder/President of Investment and Economics Club, where we explore the nature of investing in different types of securities like different types of stocks, bonds, and cryptocurrencies. We do a lot of simulations and competitions.
  3. Regional chair of the STL Model UN. Administer 2 conferences every year with over 20 schools and 500+ students.
  4. Member of Science National Honor Society (SNHS) and Future Business Leaders of America (FBLA), likely leadership positions in the coming year (probably also joining NHS)

Comments: As you can tell, I really like combining life sciences (neuroscience especially) with business/entrepreneurship. If I get into the dual degree I plan on doing a neuroscience major in CAS, finance+healthcare management concentrations at Wharton. If not, I plan on dual majoring/dual concentration in neuroscience+economics.

My future goals are doing some healthcare consulting, going to grad school for either PhD or MD/PhD and then do R&D in pharma (hopefully in couple years become pharma executive and lead the industry).

It would also be nice if you all can also give me feedback on chances for any summer institutes (like RSI) for the next summer!

Will appreciate any feedback!

2

Five per cent. Where do you live? How can you be working in St. Louis and Philadelphia at the same time. You are also involved in a NYC startup? It doesn’t seem to be logical

3

@collegedad13 I’m from STL. I’ve worked at WashU on a neuroimaging project, and my professor recommended me to come to UPenn for the summer to do research on this collaborative project. I’m here for the summer and am continuing into the school year once I go back to STL because all my analysis is done through computers and servers (remember, this is neuroimaging, I’m looking at images). The Wharton project was one I got involved in through my professor at Penn, he introduced me to this Director at Wharton. He liked my research experience and gave me a remote offer that I’ll be working on from STL. And my project in NYC was through cold emailing startups and he gave me a remote project to work on that involves neuroinformatics (so all imaging data again). All of my projects can basically be done from wherever which is really nice about neuroimaging. And is that a 5% based off skepticism?

4

The 5 per cent is based upon my experiences and training and meeting and talking to around 100 Ivy educated students as well as reading thousands of CC posts.

There are things about your profile that are difficult to figure out. How can you do nuero imaging without having taken a biology class? If you are doing computer work what languages and programs are you proficient in? What experience do you have in machine learning? What type of analysis exactly are you doing on the brain scans? How large a sample size do you have and what is the nature of your experimental design and what do you hope to find out? You also seem to want to mix being a stock trader and being a medical doctor. I am having difficulty understanding your profile .

5

Hm okay I get what you are saying. These are all things addressed in my essays and Recs. And I don’t think you understand what combining science with business really is (it’s not just stocks + MD). Healthcare banking is something possible and very useful with both backgrounds, and A lot of Pharma companies are run by people with science professions but a business background (working in administration), examples are Roy Vagelos and Leonard Schleifer. This is actually exactly what the LSM program is seeking to create. In addition, many people in the program have a strong background in science research without even having taken many AP classes (its because of personal interest and because of many professors who actually know how to accommodate high schoolers).

I think you shouldn’t be so skeptical without even having an idea of this field. It seems like you think you know too much about this field when you don’t seem to have actually seen all of it. Please keep in mind admissions officers who have an idea of various students (especially in this intersection of science+business) and will not have the same questions you have.

Thanks for the feedback though.

6

It’s an aggressive profile. And somewhat lopsided. For colleges that care very much about the real kid behind the resume (all the colleges on your list,) the openmindedness and willingness to get involved outside one’s own narrow (and career oriented) interests, you will need to consider how to let this come through.

So have you read up on what top colleges look for? With very few (long shot)exceptions, it’s not that sort of hierarchical competition, “best” in this, “leader” in that. Try to remember they’re building a community, not just who’ll be laser focused on their own particular interests.

And be sure you understand the purpose of the main essay (and any other writing,) what that’s meant to convey.

I promise you adcoms at these top colleges will be looking for more than king of the mountain.

7

You are a competitive applicant. Your stats and ECs are great. The dual degree program is selective but you are very qualified. Write amazing essays and you could get accepted to any of these schools

8

You are at first blush fantastic in many ways but in the same vein also intensively lopsided and one dimensional. You dont seem to have any interest in a classic liberal arts education so I would focus on the more “vocational” schools like Stanford, Penn and MIT. Maybe Cornell or Berkeley. Not sure why you would even bother with Princeton, Yale or Columbia.

9

@lookingforward @doorrealthe @Center thanks for the responses! I think what most of you seem to feel is that I have great stats but it might not be what certain colleges are looking for. As you can probably tell, the more “pre-professional” colleges are definitely at the top of my list, but I also really like interdisciplinary, fluid campuses like Columbia. How do you think I can express this on my college app to make them know that I’m not dead set on destroying the competition and succeeding in life (although this mindset is extremely useful at somewhere like Penn)?

10

They don’t see themselves as “pre-professional.” How much have you explored what they want, not just whst you want? It’s more than having a packed resume.

11

@lookingforward Actually after having spent over 2 months at Penn living on campus alongside undergrads and grads, I can definitely say (from seeing professors and students) that this is an extremely pre-professional university. Everyone here is preparing for their career, not just having fun. Of course, everyone does have fun, but the main focus is being incredibly successful. This is most evident at Wharton. Everyone is preparing for that job at Barclays or Goldman Sachs In investment banking/consulting. It’s the nature of the university, but I must agree that penn also emphasizes the other side of things with the exploration of interests and interdisciplinary feel. That is something that definitely interests me also.

12

Actuallly, an experience in summer isn’t representative of what adcoms will look for. You have a choice: assume you “get it,” based on this short view, or dig in to what the U says and shows it wants and self assess based on that. For all the work you want to do, you need to be admitted, first. It’s often a mistake to approach this too self-assured.

Have you looked at the MIT blogs?

13

It’s very helpful to read the school’s mission statement. Here’s the one for Penn CAS: https://www.college.upenn.edu/college-mission

14

@lookingforward I am definitely not self-assured, but I do know that I have to somewhere like Penn to actually be able to succeed in the career that I’m seeking. That’s why I’m pushing a lot for it. It’s not like a pure pre-med track where for the most part as long as you get good grades in college you have a decent shot at med school. A top university won’t necessarily be essential for success. Pharma is a little more unfamiliar to many universities and there aren’t as many connections.

And I’ve spoken with the people who will be reading my application (for the dual-degree program). They emphasize one thing especially at Penn: interdisciplinary education. I think that reflects across all parts of the university too. So don’t think I’m just assuming that I magically ‘get it’ because I don’t; I’ve spoken with many of the admissions officers and have an understanding of what type of people they look for in specific programs. But this is only talking about Penn’s dual degrees. I can’t speak elsewhere.

However, it seems like you seem to know what is right and what is wrong. Keep in mind, you can’t discredit someone else without having a solid understanding of what you know or don’t (which is why I can’t discredit what you are saying either). I don’t know how familiar you are with Penn’s dual degrees, but they are quite different from other programs.

What’s on the MIT blogs?? I’m kind of curious now!

15

Also, @ everyone, I don’t know what it seems like, but I wouldn’t say I am completely lopsided in my application. I take many humanities classes (and I actually love humanities, especially history) and I get good grades in them. I think it may get covered up by my large interests in science and business, but I don’t really understand what you are trying to prove to me. I think what you all are saying is that I shouldn’t only show how everything I do is just for my career, but rather because I enjoy it. I can definitely say for sure, everything on that list is something I enjoy doing immensely. Why would I go through that much stress just for building a resume honestly if I didn’t like the work enough?

I don’t understand why a college would say “we don’t like to take students who have identified their interests and are pursuing them with a passion.” I don’t do these things for resume building – I do it to pursue and learn more about my passion.

16

See, an attitude pokes through, in your comments to collegedad13 and to me. I do have experience with a tippy top and the process. We aren’t trying to “prove” anything to you. Rather, to get you to expand your thinking in ways that will benefit. This is not some exclusively hierarchical process, who’s “best” or “better” or has the most titles or awards. It’s holistic.

The colleges make the decisions. Not based on what you “enjoy.” Or how much you feel you have to have Penn. They build a community based on what they want in individuals and across the whole class. Start with the MIT blogs (if you were really exploring, you wouldn’t miss them.) And what Harvard says, all of it. Then go from there. Learn how it matters how you come across. Get an idea of how to fine tune. Then we can offer some help.

Of course profs want dedication. But that’s once there. In building a class, adcoms look at more.

17

You might be able to avoid some of the issues that others have mentioned by paring down to focus on quality rather than quantity. Let your accomplishments shine rather than make AOs dig for them among things that look a bit like fluff or puffery (Outside #4, 5, 6 and possibly 7, Inside - any clubs where you’re not providing substantial leadership/impact - probably most of #4).

18

@milee30 Very true. I’ll definitely be prioritizing my ECs (#5 and #6 are actually a huge part of my life but other than that you’re definitely right about both outside and inside ECs). I know which ones I’m truly passionate about now, and I want to pursue them further and further. I think that’s a key part of high school. After all, I am a rising junior so I think I have a little time to focus on what I love the most. Thanks for the feedback!

19

@milee30 I don’t think I prioritized my ECs on this list very well (I just kind of clumped them randomly), but on my college apps I am definitely going to put my more important things at the top vs the less committed (but still interesting) things at the bottom. That may help to avoid this “digging” you’re talking about. Do you think that’ll work better?

20

@milee30 Also, regarding prioritizing things this year, I am really worried about letting go of things I love doing. Everything on that list is something I am interested in (I don’t think of it as fluff). However, I know that I can probably focus on one/two specific things. I don’t know how to get rid of more stuff (I have actually stopped working on #6 and #7 since I’ve turned it into something larger which is #5, and I probably will stop my work with #4 because #3 interests me more). And my in school #4 activities are actually quite easy to manage and they’re kind of like relief from my intense work so that’s good. Do you think I need to cut even more??