<p>I am planning to apply to a few top violin university programs for a BM in violin performance. I am not a super contender, but I can play the specified audition pieces. I would like to experience the auditions, and if I make the screening cut, I would be able to use that time to see the campuses. My question is, will it hurt me to have a rejection on file when I reapply after a gap year with much improved skills? I think it would show that I was intent on getting into a top tier program, but maybe admission officers have another way of thinking. Should I apply now even though I am probably not going to make it? Or will that hurt in the long run? Who knows, I might get lucky! Right now, my school situation makes it impossible to get the practice time I need, but in my gap year, I can practice all day, every day!</p>
<p>If you live close to some of the “top university violin programs,” go have a real listen to their students, be objective and decide if in a year, you can match that talent. When I went to my son’s (and parents) orientation at Oberlin and attended a conservatory concert, I was completely blown away by the level of talent, and I listen to a great deal of music both live and recorded. It is the same at the other conservatories and top university SOM’s. All of these student’s found the time in high school to be ready for their auditions. What is more important to you?</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. I have visited Thornton, for example, and I think that I am about ready now, and will definitely be very competitive in a year. While a gap year and university choice are mine, my high school commitment is decided by my parents, unfortunately, which is why I have less time to polish my skills right now.</p>
<p>Good question. I’m not sure if a rejection would harm you. I know of several students who applied to top programs, were rejected, took a gap year, applied again, and got in.</p>
<p>From what I know of the audition process I don’t believe it would hurt you to take a gap year if you didn’t get in this year, given what I know of the music school admissions process from hearing admissions people talk formally and informally, I doubt very much they even check to see if someone has applied before (with computerized systems, of course they could do this if they keep the applications on the computer once a candidate is rejected but I wonder if they even bother cross referencing). </p>
<p>In music school auditions, keep in mind that the admissions really boils down to your pre screening audition dvd (if needed) and then the main audition if you make it that far. It is up to the teachers on the panel, and I can say with about 99% surety that unless they remember you (doubtful) they prob won’t know you were there before and few if any of them would care even if they did (based on the teachers I know of and have actually met)</p>
<p>I have known several students who auditioned to high level programs who didn’t get in and did the gap year and got in as well so that indicates a lot, too.</p>
<p>Bartok, in answer to your question (and also for future people who stumble on this), kids who get into the high level programs on the uber competitive instruments like violin, piano or cello (and voice probably) requires a commitment to the music that can preclude other things, especially the academics and EC’s that academically oriented students do these days. If a student’s parents pressure them into the track where they are taking the heavy academic load of many AP classes, honor classes, plus all the EC’s and so forth, that takes away from practice time and other things to get to that very high level required for auditions. A lot of parents are not very supportive of music and see the track into an ivy league college as everything, and it impacts their kids. Talk to people with kids in the high level pre college programs and one of the things that is common is you can see the kids who intend to go into music performance, from those who don’t and are angling for the high level academic admission, and what you see is after about Sophomore year their progress, if it doesn’t flatline, is less then those dedicating themselves to a future in music. These kids still play at an incredible level in many cases, but the demands of the X AP’s, with the many hours of homework, takes away from practicing. Some of those kids actually do apply to music schools and will get in, but often it is because they achieved a high level relatively early, but not all music students do that. If Gideon’s family pressured him/her into the heavy academic track and he/she was still in a place where they needed to work on things, as many music students do, then that could explain why he/she needs more time. </p>
<p>Gideon, if you have benchmarked yourself against kids at Thornton on Violin then you are prob in a relatively strong position to audition most places, they have a strong violin program (and it isn’t just because Midori heads it). Auditions are weird beasts and anything could happen, but if you are not looking at them and saying “holy cow, I am way behind” you may be pleasantly surprised when you do audition:)</p>
<p>Obviously, as with any post on this board, this is simply my view of things, based on what I have seen and heard, I don’t work in admissions nor am I a music teacher (or even play one on TV <em>smile</em>), but it is what I strongly believe to be true.</p>
<p>Thanks musicprnt. I had no clue about any of that.</p>
<p>As was stated already by musicprnt, given the number of students panels hear during an audition season, the likelihood that anyone would remember you if you audition the next year is slim (and none!). Your name might well show up in the school’s database when you submit your reapplication, although that wouldn’t count against you either.
My concern is when you say that “(you) might get lucky”: let’s say that you do get into one top program because everything was right on the day you auditioned. Do you feel fully prepared to handle the workload that comes along with admission? Not only the lessons but the coursework, ensemble requirements, etc? I’ve known kids who got into schools who then fell behind because they weren’t able to keep up with kids who were, in all honesty, far better than they were overall. I am not saying that applies to you in any way, but it’s something everyone should think about. Good luck to you, Gideon- I’m sure you’ll do well because you have a good head on your shoulders and are not afraid to ask tough questions.</p>
<p>musicprnt- your observation about commitment for those who are trying for spots on the highly competitive instruments is excellent, but it’s not the same for VP. Singers begin serious study of their craft much later than their instrumental peers and they spend much less time in the practice room just because a young voice can’t tolerate hours of work each day. Thus, they do have more time available for tougher courses and ECs, but those too are scheduled with an eye towards what will best serve them later on. My D had enough college-level credit courses to fulfill all of her gen eds and test out of one of the required languages when she began college, as did a classmate who attends another top school as a VP major. It’s never too early to begin planning!</p>
<p>Of course, I don’t know you or anything about your playing, but if you feel you are competitive, toss your hat in the ring. If you don’t get into the school you’re aiming for, you can try again in a year. My daughter has two friends who did a “practice audition” at Curtis, with a plan of seriously applying to conservatories the following year. Both of them got in.</p>
<p>Mezzo-</p>
<p>I didn’t talk about vp (in part because the poster was on violin, and in part because I only know a little about VP so I generally don’t get into specifics with it), but you are correct with voice and it makes sense. Kids start violin and piano at early ages and they can start practicing/working intensely relatively young (I know of music students on the violin, generally kids from Asia, who were practicing 5 or 6 hours a day at 5 or 6 years old), which you can’t do on voice. I was talking to my S about that the other day and though with instrumental music more and more students go the grad school route, it seems with voice that the grad school for voice students is like a top conservatory is for instrumental students (in effect, UG voice is kind of like what a top level private teacher/program is to a high school student instrumentalist, a stepping stone to the ‘real deal’). Voice doesn’t allow that kind of craziness and IMO that is a good thing, gives voice students time to a)do other things and b)work on the supporting things, like music theory and languages and diction and such:).</p>
<p>I agree with your response to the OP, about not just getting in but handling the load that is there. It is where a student who has studied with a great private teacher but has not done the rest of what it typical in a music program (i.e juggling things like ensemble playing, music theory, ear training along with lessons and practicing) might have trouble compared to students who have experienced that kind of load, like a kid in a pre college prep program who also does chamber music and orchestra with a youth orchestra, for example. I know from what I have heard that more then a few kids come into performance programs on all levels, not just the top, and find the intensity daunting and it isn’t just kids who got in marginally, the kids whose prior to college experience was all private lessons and practice can have a hard time when they find out about the commitment to chamber, orchestra(s), music theory and ear training mean.</p>
<p>Gideon - I think Mezzo stated the pressures well. It is not simply about acceptance. I see no reason not to give it a shot, keeping in mind that the application, prescreen and auditions requirements can be an organizational nightmare if not kept on top of. Also the application deadlines are mostly December 1 and some even earlier. Good Luck!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the useful comments. I have decided to go ahead and apply, then take the gap year if need be. I am not too worried about the whole package of orchestra and chamber preparation, because I do them now. I can read music very well and remember it easily. The thing that helped me make up my mind was seeing an old post where somebody wrote that they could learn more at a music school if they got in than they would learn if they took a gap year to get more ready. That made a lot of sense. So now I have more confidence, and I will just apply to the few places I really want to go instead of applying everywhere or nowhere. I guess I need to find where I can make my screening videos, and how to rent a professional camera/mic that will make me sound really good!</p>
<p>Go ahead and give Oberlin a shot. You can apply to both the Conservatory and the College or the Conservatory alone. My son decided to apply to only the Conservatory and fill his courses in the college with math. He got 5’s on the BC Calc and Physics AP’s so he will not have to take the first year of college calc. plus he has some credits to boot.</p>
<p>There have been a number of threads on here about pre-screening recordings, various options. You can do it youself, recorders like the zoom q3 hd have decent sound recording capability and the video is HD level and isn’t bad, and for a pre screen seems to be fine.</p>
<p>Others rent out a recording studio to do the pre screen, which is expensive but you get the advantage of good acoustics and good quality video. You could also do something like rent/borrow a good space (like a church) and have someone professionally record it (the guys who do weddings, etc) as an alternative. I think personally the important part is the sound, I don’t think the video quality is critical for these, since they will be listening to the playing ability.</p>
<p>I suggest searching the threads, lot of years of experience out there.</p>
<p>It is my understanding that musicians with the guts to reapply a second time are actually given points for doing so and have a better chance of acceptance. I do know someone who just graduated from Juilliard who was accepted on the second try.</p>
<p>If I may offer some advice in addition to the excellent recommendations and information already supplied, make the very best plans you can for your gap year, especially your musical context, teachers, and continuing your music studies generally. As a violinist, you need to be in orchestras and ensembles as much as possible.</p>
<p>I have a feeling, though, that you’ll pull a slam dunk on the first go around.</p>
<p>I agree with stringkeymom-- I have anecdotal evidence that it’s not uncommon to apply to places like Curtis more than once before finally being accepted. Same with Juilliard. Throw your hat into the ring and see what happens-- you may be happily surprised. And if you have a plan in place for a good gap year, you will go into the first set of auditions with more confidence than anxiety, which in itself can be helpful.</p>