Rolling Stone article on sexual assault at UVa

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
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<p>You are being rather kind. The journalist wrote an entire story and presented as truth; it is irrelevant if some accurate aspects are sprinkled in between. It is the entire story presented as truth that is damaging. If the journalist wrote the sun rose at 6 AM, just because that fact is accurate does not vindicate the entire story, as fabrication. And it is fabrication if facts presented as facts are not corroborated. Why be a journalist if verifiable facts do not matter?</p>

<p>Unfortunately, there are grown adults teaching students and people, such as this journalist, that making it up is just fine if you think what you say advances a favored agenda. There are posters on here who openly state and advocate that the truth is incidental. If that not is teaching that lying and making it up are OK, I do not know what is. I am sure said journalist had adults somewhere down the line telling her the same, i.e., truth is incidental. Great - there are adults teaching students to be out and out liars. A segment of our nation is being trained to be agenda-driven frauds. Just dandy. </p>

<p>More interesting is who looks smarter now, the police who when a rape is reported actually questions the accuser to ascertain the details or people advocating those questions are offensive and all details must be believed on their face? Maybe the police are smarter than people think; well, the police are clearly smarter than this journalist because they (police) would have flushed out the inconsistencies before printing a story (or charges filed). And given the fact there are adults teaching females that truth is incidental, I, and probably many others, can understand why the police do not just roll over and believe every word out of an accuser’s mouth. Explains why so many college tribunals are losing in court to accused males - they are buying into stories without checking facts well, just like this journalist and paying the price this journalist and RR are going to pay, i.e., $$$$$$.</p>

<p>Another consequence is I wonder how many female students who have accused or are about to accuse male colleagues just pulled their story back because they realize that going public means you better have your ducks in row. But what an interesting moral dilemma, as one would think that if you are going to accuse someone of a serious crime, you would not accuse unless your ducks are all in a row and can stand up to scrutiny. But, if one wants to duck (no pun intended) real scrutiny, yet wants full justice, something is just plain wrong with that system, as it rewards people like this journalist, and possibly Jackie, who embellish and possibly outright just make stuff up.</p>

<p>One final thought - Jackie better be telling the truth because she brought her friends into this and did not put them in a good light. Those friends may have a case for slander if they deny what she said they did or told her because, like many posters here, those friends have been deemed horrible people. If I were one of those friends and things did not happen as stated I definitely would suing her big time. </p>

<p>Crazier still is if UVA sues Jackie and RR if this does turn out to be severely overblown or not true. Rest assured a real investigation is underway now. </p>

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<p>The way the original article was worded, I felt something was off. It seemed extremely vivid and emotional, very attention grabbing and not content with stating just the supposed facts. Time for UVA to take severe action against this magazine to make sure it doesn’t do this again.</p>

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<p>This was shoddy piece of journalism whether Jackie’s story was discredited or not. Did anyone really read the ridiculous caricatures painted by this writer and believe she wasn’t fabricating a narrative to sell magazines? From the verses of Rugby Road that no one has ever heard of to the description of the blond, vapid, social climbing students, this writer didn’t want facts to get in the way of a good story.</p>

<p>From the original article, “And so at UVA, where social status is paramount, outing oneself as a rape victim can be a form of social suicide… After all, no one climbs the social ladder only to cast themselves back down.” How did the writer or editors think that kind of hyperbole would further the serious discussion about rape on college campuses?</p>

<p>Jackie now says she tried to back out of the article (perhaps realizing she was fuzzy on some facts?) and was told no, it would be published against her will if she didn’t cooperate. If true, this would be an even more outrageous affront. What responsible journalist tells a rape victim that once again she is powerless? I have to believe something bad happened to Jackie, that her memory has been embellished for whatever reason, and that she has again been victimized by an unethical, ambitious screenwriter-wanna be. </p>

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<p>I’m sorry @Mom2twins I can’t in my heart of hearts think that is a person fuzzy on some facts. I too believe something happened to her but there are far too many issues to make her the victim of a “screenwriter wannabee”</p>

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<p>And this is a problem with the language being used, and thus the potential for major slander charges because someone has already been labeled a rapist and a frat maligned by using “rape victim” instead of “alleged rape victim,” as nothing has been proved, but much has been disproved.</p>

<p>I think I will wait for judgement till the investigation is concluded because what if this is just one big attention-getter motivated to drive an agenda? The journalist would have no story, if there were no Jackie. Therefore, someone is lying between the two of them or maybe both.</p>

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<p>The point is this supposed journalist believed Jackie to be a rape victim. That makes her refusal to allow her to back out of the article outrageous.</p>

<p>The screenwriter reference refers to the writer’s stated interest in her stories being optioned by Hollywood.</p>

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<p>Do you realize how this sounds? </p>

<p>Wouldn’t letting Jackie back out after telling the story be the exact same result as her friends telling her not to report? Something many found horrendous and selfish advice. </p>

<p>Many posters on here, and in other similar threads, are in favor of reporting the crime regardless. But now you are advocating that the accuser tell her alleged rape story in detail then be allowed to be quiet and not report? That is just letting her do the exact same thing people scold her friends for advising her to do, i.e., keep quiet. </p>

<p>Yes, I understand how ultimately it is Jackie’s choice, but then kind of hard to demean her friends who just pushed the same “no report” thing a couple years earlier.</p>

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<p>Wow that you still think Rolling Stone’s reporter cared about Jackie at all. And that victims should have no choice. And still believe the outrageous version about her friends’ reaction.</p>

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<p><<wouldn’t letting="" jackie="" back="" out="" after="" telling="" the="" story="" be="" exact="" same="" result="" as="" her="" friends="" not="" to="" report?="" something="" many="" found="" horrendous="" and="" selfish="" advice.="">></wouldn’t></p>

<p>Not even close to the same result! Even if the account of how her friends acted is true (which is hard to believe at this point), how can you compare telling your story to the world through a sensationalized article to reporting a crime privately to the police? And, when a victim does report a rape to the police, they are part of the decision on whether to move forward with an investigation and/or prosecution. The victim is in control. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.</p>

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<p>“What I am saying is that too many people are saying that if Jackie’s story is false that it proves there is no problem. I am saying if her story is false it does NOT mean there is no problem.”</p>

<p>(Grr. This is going to be long, because I’ve got two weeks of backed-up angst.)</p>

<p>Who’s saying this? There are a ton of people on UVa sites addressing the incredible rush to judgement and not discussing overall sexual assault policy-- forgive them if they’re blowing off steam after having endured a fairly ghastly few weeks where it was assumed that virtually every male was complicit and virtually every female was a hapless victim of a clearly corrupt system. Many are gathering their energy and trying to figure out exactly where we are as a community.</p>

<p>One thing that I will deny is that there is a problem that is clearly UVa’s and UVa’s alone.The main evidence is 1) there were a lot of women that came forward in the wake of the Jackie article; 2) no confessed rapists have been expelled; 3) “Rugby Road” and the mural. </p>

<p>1) The sexual assault statistics don’t indicate UVa as a statistical outlier. Those newly-emerged victims appear to be in addition to existing sexual assault statistics. But they came out in response to the RS article. To determine if UVa, with these new students, is a statistical outlier, we’d need to have a similar RS article on other college campuses.</p>

<p>2) I’d really like to know more about this, because it sounds troubling (I mean that earnestly-- I couldn’t find a link). Were they truly confessed rapists? Or did they confess to sexual assault? Notice that they never say “convicted rapists” are expelled. Convicted rapists are removed from the community by a thing called prison. Would anyone confess to a university forum that they had committed a crime if prosecution was still on the table? I can only imagine that any student who “confessed” was given some sort of a deal-- confession wouldn’t trigger expulsion, nor would it be used against them in criminal proceedings. Otherwise, who would confess? I truly don’t get this stat. It simply doesn’t add up.</p>

<p>3) Rugby Road: a fossil, a remnant of an older, single-sex era that nobody has ever claimed was a critical part of the U in the modern era. In the 70s/80s, I knew verses 1 and 2; everybody sang verse 1 (alcohol-focused); nobody sang 2. The mural? SMH. No idea why somebody would put that on a wall.</p>

<p>I’ll add 4, because it just occurred to me: admin indifference. That’s at odds with an article in Al-Jazeera recently (yeah, I’m not proud of citing Al-Jazeera, but let’s remember that many were accepting Rolling Stone articles at face value!) in which Brett Sokolow (?) said UVa’s sexual assault procedures were models for college policies. UVa’s forceful response to earlier allegations resulted in the removal of an entire fraternity from the community (circa 2008, I think). UVa’s actions have been heavily hamstrung by Title IX, and there’s little to suggest that they could have done significantly more. Look up the compliance review (as my attorney wife did, leading her to be spitting mad about the cavalier way people have held this up as a smoking gun) to see how minor the “violations” were. More can always be done, but we are not, repeat not, significantly worse than other large universities.</p>

<p>And finally: if this rape culture exists, and UVa women live in abject fear of constant sexual assault threats: why on earth wouldn’t they leave? There’s absolutely zero evidence of women fleeing for their own safety from this obvious rape-happy environment.</p>

<p>So (after a long digression): I strongly disagree that UVa is a statistical outlier, where men are much more likely to rape, women are mostly resigned to their fate, and the school likes that arrangement. Let’s proceed to next steps: there is a problem at most major universities: what steps should UVa take to enhance safety, decrease sexual assault, maintain compliance with federal and local guidelines, and yet not erode due process?</p>

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<p>@mikesdog1 wrote: "So (after a long digression): I strongly disagree that UVa is a statistical outlier, where men are much more likely to rape, women are mostly resigned to their fate, and the school likes that arrangement. Let’s proceed to next steps: there is a problem at most major universities: what steps should UVa take to enhance safety, decrease sexual assault, maintain compliance with federal and local guidelines, and yet not erode due process?</p>

<p>I don’t know if UVA is a statistical outlier or not. I get the impression from some of the comments/links that they handle most (all?) rape allegations internally through the SMB and don’t report them. Then again, I get the feeling that some other schools might do this as well. </p>

<p>I also believe that rape or sexual assault isn’t just a problem at “most major universities”. I’d bet a lot of money that it is a problem at ALL Colleges. Having said that: your last sentence is perfect and what we should be concentrating on. </p>

<p>You also wrote: “Notice that they never say “convicted rapists” are expelled. Convicted rapists are removed from the community by a thing called prison. Would anyone confess to a university forum that they had committed a crime if prosecution was still on the table? I can only imagine that any student who “confessed” was given some sort of a deal-- confession wouldn’t trigger expulsion, nor would it be used against them in criminal proceedings. Otherwise, who would confess? I truly don’t get this stat. It simply doesn’t add up.”</p>

<p>From what I have been able to gather, very few women press charges and most cases are handled through the UVA Sexual Misconduct Board. Once before that Board a case cannot go before the Courts because of either double jeopardy or Title 9. I would guess that is way people admit to the misconduct or rape because they know it is better than going before a judge, but I am just guessing and unsure of the entire process. I also get the impression that the women that report to the police end up without convictions against their attackers. I would love to hear how many women went to the police in the last X number of years versus those who handled it through the SMB, versus those like Jackie who never sought any adjudication at all. Then, I would like to know how many were found guilty in the courts, how many cases there were before the SMB (because we know there have only ever been 14 men found guilty, and that none of them have been kicked out).</p>

<p>As to your point about women obviously not living in abject fear because they aren’t fleeing the campus: I don’t see the logic in that comment at all. First of all women could be living in abject fear and probably wouldn’t flee the campus. As proof of that, I know for a fact that my D and every woman she knows was terrified during the Hannah Graham kidnapping but none of them fled the school. Also, women at UVA don’t necessarily have to live in abject fear to know that there is a problem.</p>

<p>Finally, you asked “who is saying this”, and my answer is a lot of people. I have read many comments on several CC threads, NBC29, Cav Daily, etc where people are saying that they knew all along that Jackie’s story was made up and that it shows there isn’t a real problem (or at least a problem that is worse than any other college). I disagree, and point to the lack of expulsions, and several other factors as proof that the problem or culture is probably worse than at many other schools. </p>

<p>Again, your comment about “what steps should UVa take to enhance safety, decrease sexual assault, maintain compliance with federal and local guidelines, and yet not erode due process?” is excellent advice and it what everyone should be focusing on.</p>

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<p>At this point, shouldn’t the editor of the Rolling Stone Managing Editor, Will Dana, resign or be sacked? It seems to me he blames the rape victim for the whole fiasco, instead of acknowledging his own incompetence in publishing a sensational story without vetting it.</p>

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<p>It took the Washington Post just a few days to find one of the friends Jackie called that night, referred to as “Andy” in RS. Apparently months of research didn’t allow Rubin Erdley to do some basic investigation. But why bother messing up the juicy narrative she was composing with any pesky skeptical journalism.</p>

<p>From WaPo: “A student who came to Jackie’s aid the night of the alleged attack said in an interview late Friday night that she did not appear physically injured at the time but was visibly shaken and told him and two other friends that she had been at a fraternity party and had been forced to have oral sex with a group of men. They offered to get her help and she said she just wanted to return to her dorm.” </p>

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<p><a href=“Rolling Stone UVA rape story continues to unravel. Jackie's friend "Andy" speaks out.”>Rolling Stone UVA rape story continues to unravel. Jackie's friend "Andy" speaks out.;

<p>Friend who talked to Jenny right after alleged attack said RS never tried to contact him. Says many aspects of article are not correct.</p>

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<p>arwarw, I think this debacle is a huge black spot for the editor. He bears 100% responsibility for the story getting published and now cannot stand behind it. This could do a lot of damage to RS’s reputation.</p>

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<p>The last thing I want to say on this:
Reading the RS article again, and looking at some other links, while nobody has been expelled for rape by the sexual misconduct board, there’s absolutely no indication that they allowed a confessed rapist to remain. Some sexual assailants admitted their violations, but I don’t see anywhere that rapists are confessing and being allowed to stay.</p>

<p>This leads me to call for much, much greater care in using the word “rape” interchangeably with the term “sexual assault”. For example, a few pages back, TV4caster made the contention that the range of US campus <em>rapes</em> was between 300,000 and 12 Million (!). And used the term “rape hub” to describe UVa, even after yesterday’s developments.</p>

<p>And before we even say “it’s a rape hub, like all other college campuses”, let’s check the data. I cranked the numbers for REPORTED campus rapes and REPORTED national rapes, made very pessimistic assumptions (a low bound for total college female population, a high bound for women in the general population), and still came up with a lower rate on college campuses than in the overall US. Considering the population density at colleges, I’d expect the rate to be much higher than it actually is. </p>

<p>This “rape hub” talk, and/or the promotion of the idea that UVa is significantly worse than other colleges, based on vague interpretations of vague results of hidden consultations and necessarily secret school negotiations and trials, is slanderous.</p>

<p>And of course women were terrified during the Hannah Graham ordeal. But none left because it was during a semester, and there were never parents and students claiming that the abduction was due to an “abduction & murder culture” at UVa. If women truly felt that their safety would be significantly greater elsewhere than at this “rape hub”, they would be transferring out in truckloads. </p>

<p>Again, let’s do the right things to make UVa safer, but let’s stop slandering the institution and community.</p>

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<p>This On the Media podcast, featuring Hanna Rosin and Caitlin Flanagan, two of the journalists/rape victim advocates who picked apart the RS story, is especially enlightening. Nails what everyone is thinking - how and why this event is a sad, sad day for journalism and a deadly blow to rape culture awareness.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.onthemedia.org/search/?q=rolling+stone+#q=rolling”>http://www.onthemedia.org/search/?q=rolling+stone+#q=rolling&lt;/a&gt; stone</p>

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<p>@mikesdog1 wrote: " TV4caster made the contention that the range of US campus <em>rapes</em> was between 300,000 and 12 Million (!). And used the term “rape hub” to describe UVa, even after yesterday’s developments."</p>

<p>Yesterday’s developments have nothing to do with it. I was using the term that was used in the quote that I was referencing and simply stating that there is obviously a problem with rape on the campus (and how it is handled). It is a problem everywhere as I have repeatedly said. Do I think UVA has more of a problem that other schools? maybe. I do think they have more of a problem with how it is dealt with.</p>

<p>As for your contention that you “cranked the numbers” and found some supposed statistic supporting more rapes in the general public than at college campuses: there can be no correlation at all that can be made. A women in the US who is raped has two choices- report the rape to the police or don’t report it. A woman on a college campus has 3 choices. Report the rape to the police, don’t report it at all, or report it to the school where it is often handled internally. You were crunching apples and oranges. </p>

<p>Finally, rape is defined differently in each state, with some removing the word rape altogether (like NJ) and replacing it with ‘sexual assault’. </p>

<p>And people were claiming there was an abduction and rape culture in C’ville (and they were correct). Mathew has been linked to several cases and is being investigated for several others. </p>

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The word “culture” sure seems to be thrown around loosely here… </p>

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<p>^^^ I’ll say. But at least we know now that “(blank) culture” means that at least one person is participating.</p>