<p>He had 2 sons and others that would have continued the same way he did. and death generally isnt a bad thing. people died, so what.<br>
leaving Iraq now will cause hundreds of thousands of more people to die, plus the majority of Iraqi's want us there.</p>
<p>I agree with you 100% goat4d.</p>
<p>And yeah, most Americans are [wimps] today. Thanks bleeding heart liberals for losing us another war due to bad public opinion!</p>
<p>PS I'm not a Republican.</p>
<p>wait, i dont think it was liberals who cause us to lose the war....they're not the ones who are fighting and running the war, its the president and the pentagon. congress can only fund the war which they are doing. we lost because of very very very poor planning, they thought the iraqis would welcome us with open arms and apparently didnt' expect any insurgency. im not saying we leave quickly either (but reading the news of soliders being sniped and bombed meaninglessly and dying in vain isnt exactly very encouraging), im just saying things could have been handled a LOT better.</p>
<p>and death generally isnt a bad thing...tell those to the people who have been behaded or suicide bombed, its not exactly a fun way to die.</p>
<p>and im not a democrat, im a moderate.</p>
<p>Regardless of what our intention were (liberators freeing the Iraqi people or whatever ******** they said), we have to face the fact now that we're little more than an occupying force, and if history has taught us ANYTHING, it's that occupations don't work. The french got their asses kicked in Indochina, the soviets got *<strong><em>ed in Afghanistan, and now we're being bled dry financially and militarily in Iraq. That being said, our best bet now is to pull out asap. There is a good chance that the situation will degrade into something resembling Mogadishu, Somalia in 1993; but there is also an equally good chance that some Iraqis will step up and get their *</em></strong> together. It's a civil war stemming from a feud that began centuries prior, during a time when our European ancestors were still crawling out of the dark age, and I fail to see how our continued occupation could possibly help the situation.</p>
<p>There is nothing more ironic than people who are posting on an Internet forum (and are obviously not soldiers themselves) that other people are [wimps] for not wanting to go to war.</p>
<p>Here's a brilliant idea: If you're so brave yourselves, get out of your chairs, turn off the computer, and go enlist. Until then, you don't get to talk about how big a bunch of pussies all the other people that are doing the same thing as you are.</p>
<p>Don't worry 1of42. You can get off your pedestal now. I'll be in Iraq in about 3 years if we're still there and I would gladly go. I would have no problems with it, and let me tell you, if something bigger ever came up I would be at the recruiter's office first thing the next morning.</p>
<p>Yea Iraq really wants us there all right. I didn't know get the ***** out of our country means please stay. </p>
<p>What has Iraq done to us? Nothing! Yet we have been there for YEARS fighting some non existent war on terror. We are liberating them? BULL! The Americans have destroyed their history by bombing everything,killed innocent lives, caused them to live a 100% restrictive life. How is that democracy? How is that better then when Saddam was there? How have we helped them? We haven't done jack except hurt them more.</p>
<p>People die so what? Oh please tell that to the Iraqi families who lost their kids, the kids who no longer have moms and dads. Perhaps when you see the mother of soldier who died go ahead and say to her "Hey stop crying people die so what".</p>
<p>Now I am not saying war is bad. I am saying this war just for the hell of fighting a war is bad. If a country had missile pointed at us and someone had a finger on the button by all means I think America should go ahead and fight IF THAT IS THE LAST RESORT. But this is not the case at all.</p>
<p>Why are you guys talking about "losing a war". What war? If you remember 4 or more years ago when we invaded iraq all of the iraqi soldiers were killed or arrested on the first day or so. Where not at war now there really is no name for it and I don't know w<em>t</em>f to call it.</p>
<p>Oh and good news Artic16 because America has killed and injured a lot of soldiers they have now lowered the age 16 and no longer require a diploma. So you do not have to wait 3 years!</p>
<p>i actually wanted to enlist but my paren-.....dad wouldn't let me. He kept on saying the last thing he wanted to happen to me was to get blown up for such a meaningless war(as in all soliders are are basically target practice for insurgents) ...kinda agreed with him but still wanted to enlist....at least in the air force but wouldnt have minded the army or marines.</p>
<p>well joining was more of an idea if i didnt get accepted into my first (only) choice college and I got in and also my sister married this 35 year old wacko who has only a middle school grade education and drives trucks so my parents' mental state is extremely low and me joining and possibly getting killed would probably kill them as well.</p>
<p>Yes, my decorated Marine officer friend is a wimp for saying that in his 2 tours of Iraq, he only was further convinced that we are doing the Iraqi people a disservice by being there. So is my West Point grad (and he got into West Point straight out of high school, not some half rate military academy bridge year) who says that after being in Iraq, he cannot go back with the good conscious that he is serving the American people. While all of my many brave friends in the military went into Iraq because the felt that it was for the good of America and the good of the Iraqis, not a single one- both returned or still stationed in Iraq- support the war anymore. And according to them, neither do most of their fellow soldiers. </p>
<p>So yes, I guess out troops are just liberal, bleeding heart wimps. </p>
<p>You don't bring democracy down the barrel of a gun.</p>
<p>if you say so I must take your word, thogh I know many with opposite ideas.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh and good news Artic16 because America has killed and injured a lot of soldiers they have now lowered the age 16 and no longer require a diploma. So you do not have to wait 3 years!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>???
Where did you hear that one?</p>
<p>
[quote]
people died, so what
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So what? SO WHAT? Would YOU like YOUR family to say "so what? he's dead" and move on when YOU die? Those people that died, they have families and children to feed too, you know. By the way, there are more insurgents in Iraq now than under Saddam. And you know what's worse? THEY'RE FREAKING OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!! Saddam may have harbored terrorist groups, but at least he didn't let them run wild and bomb half of Baghdad. Anyway I never supported this war, and I still don't. And I'm further disillusioned by government's inherent inability to DO ANYTHING. And I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me. </p>
<p>This war cost more than lives and money, this war cost the US government the trust of its own people AND the goodwill of the international community, which countless history books would say is important.</p>
<p>kenshi, don't bother posting anymore.</p>
<p>Next, I personally know the person who uncovered Abu Ghraib. I also know that he is back on his 3rd tour (volunteered) with Army Civil Affairs. Maybe if you looked at history you would understand why pulling out would be a bad thing.</p>
<p>Afghanistan...whichever genius mention the soviets getting beaten back might also take a lot at what Aghanistan is today...a wasteland more or less</p>
<p>Vietnam...going in was a tough choice but it had to be done. Vietnimization was about the worst policy choice during that war.</p>
<p>French got their asses handed to them in Indonesian...There's a surprise, the french haven't exactly been known for their fighting prowess.</p>
<p>So now you say going into Iraq was meaningless when a ruthless dictator, who used chemical and biological weapons against his own people and Kuwait starts making threats against America and calling the terrorists workers of God, all while not allowing weapons inspectors into his country.</p>
<p>It's like looking at some guy who just robbed a liquor store and is now holding something inside a jacket...you don't know whether it's a gun or not, you just know that he caused people great pain in the recent past.</p>
<p>If you don't think we should've gone into Iraq after watching what he was doing, you need to seriously reconsider how you evaluate your personal safety, as well as the general security of a nation.</p>
<p>Hmmm but why us? By the way UN inspectors WERE allowed in there, and they found no evidence of chemical weapons because Bush I already bombed all of them.</p>
<p>...barfdog, I'm not seeing the logic in any of your statements.</p>
<p>The combined might of the soviet military couldn't maintain control over that wasteland in Afghanistan, just like the American military failed in their objectives in Vietnam. Both failed miserably resulting in only one thing, the death of hundreds of thousands of both the indigenous people and U.S. and Soviet soldiers.</p>
<p>So we firebombed a few thousand civilians, as long as we get a couple VC then it's all good right? Sometimes the ends don't justify the means.</p>
<p>As for your . . . statement about the french and your . . .understanding of history, indochina is not indonesia. Indochina is an archaic term for vietnam, cambodia, and laos. They had the region occupied before we even set foot in vietnam, and got their asses kicked, just like we did years later. In regard to their fighting skill I have only one word...Napoleon.</p>
<p>You say that Saddam was a ruthless dictator, and in that I totally agree, but that alone is no reason for the United States to take it upon ourselves to remove him. There is such a thing as the United Nations which has protocol for these situations. We can't simply disregard the rules of international relations just because Bush thinks himself to be above these. The way in which we handled the situation is without excuse. The planning of the war was extraordinarily bad. We hoped for the best case scenario in which we would be welcomed as liberators, and all Iraqis would welcome the new westernized democracy, without any regard to the Islamic factional rivalry to which we are now painfully aware. I shudder to think what lasting repercussions this war has for America.</p>