<p>@1downtogo- it could be argued the program wasn’t fair in the first place.</p>
<p>@caizacuz- You’re sadly mistaken if you believe all community colleges are “easier.” Every professor is different. Furthermore, they are not there simply to “prepare you for a 4 year.” You’re the one talking out of your behind, kid. Again, all of these observations are coming from a kid who’s not even out o highschool yet :rolleyes:. Of course, you’re not open minded enough to consider other factors contributing to your siblings poor performance after being thrust into a 4 year. Like, perhaps, they weren’t able to make the immediate adjustment to college life, or attempted to utilize the same strategies they employed in high school, or too much socializing, etc etc. </p>
<p>As for the money issue, you’re wrong. I wouldn’t take it because it’s not free. It comes from somewhere, and it’s against my personal beliefs, so stop being a whiney brat. “Wahh where’s my FREE money.” Unreal.</p>
<p>^^^ i’m sure others share that opinion. my point was that for the kids who already stood in front of their schoolmates, family and friends to receive the ‘award’, the decent thing to do would be to follow through on the offer…poor economy and all. just my opinion.</p>
<p>I agree with not taking the awards away from this years class, especially when it comes to NJ STARS. There are people that have already made their college decisions based on the free tuition and are now left in a big financial bind. It’s not like they have time to explore other options either.</p>
<p>I understand where you’re coming from, 1 and mamajay, but you must realize there are a number of factors pushing education prices upward. Schools may be forced to adjust their expenses if Governmental sources are not subsidizing it. </p>
<p>Have you stopped to think about the number of students that receive some sort of federal/state money…grant or loan? If you start cutting back, and schools realize this isn’t guaranteed money they will be receiving, prices will have to adjust…or they just won’t be able to stay afloat. It’s a generalized statement, but it’s the gist of things.</p>
<p>People are going to take issue with it whenever it’s done. Cut it now, and this is the response. No regard is given to how it will affect education in the future. Cut it next year, and another response will be given.</p>
<p>I’m sorry that this thread has pushed some political hot buttons. The primary intent was to warn people who had not committed to a school to make it a consideration if they were relying on financial funding from the school of their choice. It’s a disservice to yank something out so close to the deadline of deposits and enrollment from this year’s incoming freshman if they were counting on an award to help fund their entry in 2010. Our hs awards ceremony is in May. Letters were already sent out for recipients to accept Blounstein awards. RE: STARS program—close to 200 kids have applied to the CC here (don’t know how many were STARS qualified/will enroll). I honestly think these programs are considered incentives and not entitlements. There are some hard working kids out there, and this is their only option. I can understand the drastic measures needed for the cuts, but it might have been better to make it a graduated adjustment so people could adjust their plans in advance and make better decisions.
Be aware as well if you received a TAG grant that this too may vanish as early as 2010.</p>
<p>Ironically, hotsawce complains about programs like NJ STARS “wasting” his tax dollars, when his own education is also subsidized by the tax payers.</p>
<p>i love controversial threads. hotsawce is wrong. community colleges are ULTRA jokes. i had to take a class at my local one over the summer to skip a level in high school. i got over 100% in the community college class and a B+ in my high school class. enough said. i only know two people who ever had a good reason for being in comm. college. one was there because of money but also didn’t really do well in high school to my knowledge. the other just wanted to skip classes at carnegie mellon because they’re exponentially harder there which is the consummate example that comm. college is way easier.</p>
<p>@Lurker - How so? If you’re referring to TAG or something, I’ll kindly explain my reasoning. I have no problem taking the amount of money that was taken from me through taxes, and I don’t have a problem with anyone else doing that. As far as I’m concerned, that is money that one should have the ability to allocate as they choose, as it is money that was taken from them. I would not take any amount of money surpassing what I payed to the government; my issue with STARS and similar programs is the amount it pays to individuals. In most cases, the amount payed out significantly overshoots that gap. </p>
<p>That’s a generalized statement of my sentiments. You don’t have to agree, but I feel it’s fairly reasonable.</p>
<p>@mahomushi: boneheaded statement. How were the classes taken? Simultaneously or one following the other?</p>
<p>Community colleges are funded by local property taxes and state/government aid. Your tuition and education are subsidized by taxpayers, just as NJSTARS subsidizes the tuition of those students who stay in new jersey.</p>
<p>@Lurker- Unfortunately, the fact most colleges are connected to government is something that’s unavoidable. You do realize that all public colleges, to some degree, are subsidized by state and federal government, right? Additionally, there are a number of reasons as to why CC are more affordable. </p>
<p>Would you care to show me the amount of public money subsidizing CCs, since you seem to know so much about it, or do you not have the hard numbers?</p>
<p>If we get rid of Christie and the NJEA the state would be in a much better place! </p>
<p>I’ve been pushing my Jr D to consider Rutgers as it has a great animal science program, but this may be the final straw to stop the discussion. So sad, as I have my MBA from Rutgers-Newark.</p>
<p>There is no need to get an attitude. The community college model relies heavily on property taxes and state aid - that is why it is a community college. State schools are also subsidized by the federal government (to a lesser degree), as are non-profit private schools through tax breaks and generous research dollars doled out by the United States government (to an even lesser degree). </p>
<p>The point of the matter is that education, as a whole, is subsidized by the government, and I don’t see why you have a specific problem with NJSTARS. They did better than you in high school. Do better than them in college and get your own merit scholarships. The money is out there. </p>
<p>Side Note: NJSTARS does keep the brightest and best within the state of New Jersey (which is suffering from a huge brain drain). There are not many private schools in new jersey, in the end the scholarship comes back to the government anyways so it doesn’t “cost” as much as it seems.</p>
<p>There is a need for an attitude, because you’re making generalized statements with no hard numbers to back it up. The fact of the matter is you really don’t know how much money is subsidizing it, but we do know one thing. The state is broke. We know another. The state is paying money to students it does not have.</p>
<p>Oh, and just to clarify, I payed every penny of my community college tuition out of my own pocket. I couldn’t have possibly payed more for it.</p>
<pre><code> My point is no one should be getting excessive money from the government for education. STARS is the program that allocates the bulk of it. Really, there’s no reason the government should be paying for the majority of an individual’s education. To give a kid money based on highschool performance, that is coming from other families in the state with their own kids they need to put through school, is completely unethical. The state is attempting to determine student success and that’s not it’s job…I don’t care what you say.
</code></pre>
<p>Aside from that, the jury is still out on the STARS keeping talent in NJ issue. Yea, it might keep students in state because they are getting free money, but how many graduates that received STARS funding are contributing to the NJ economy? I’d like to see the numbers for that. There are so many things going on with STARS…but to put it simply, there is no evidence that STARS does anything to help New Jersey. You might be keeping students in state for 2 years, but that doesn’t mean they will contribute in any way, shape, or form to the state…and it’s becoming more apparent it’s just a total drain.</p>
<p>Lurker and NJmom, please, tell me where the money is coming from for all of this? You speak of unseating a guy who’s trying to prevent a complete collapse of NJ because he won’t give your kid free money, that the state doesn’t even have, for school. </p>
<p>NJmom, even if you didn’t get squat from the state, it’s still likely to be more affordable to send your son to school in state than out of state, so I don’t know why you’re complaining. It’s the last straw? What are you going to do, then? Send him to a school in PA where the tuition alone is the price of tuition and board here? And if he’s out of state, chances are he’s going to be paying another 10 grand for room and board…so have fun being disgruntled but the fact of the matter is that it’s still probably going to be cheaper to keep him in state. I hope he’s getting some scholarships if he’s going out of state…maybe then the costs will be equivalent…but then you have to worry about the school being as good as Rutgers after all of it. And it’s not just that…it’s about priorities. Everyone wants everything. Do you have a nice car? You clearly have a computer to type your ranting on, but what other luxuries are you refusing to forego? So many people here WANT things that aren’t necessities AND free money from the government. Well, I’ll tell you what. If most people here cut the things they didn’t need out of their life, they’d have more money to pay for school. I don’t see why people should be using their income to buy new cars and tvs and computers and such and THEN receive money from the government to go to school. Prioritize, people. It’s called personal responsibility; you’re not entitled to everything. That’s another moral issue that needs to be addressed.</p>
<p>Since you were not kind enough to provide me with the name of the community college you attend, nor did you bother to look at the numbers yourself, I have provided you with the numbers for my local community college, the Community College of Morris. If you would like to refute my very accurate generalized statements, I suggest you crunch the numbers yourself next time. </p>
<p>In short, CCM is supposed to be 66% subsidized by the taxpayers, but is only (21+13.9) 35% subsidized by the taxpayers. This fiscal year, state/county funding fell ~$1,000,000 resulting in a $5.50 increase per credit for community college students (including both credit hour tuition increase and fee increases). If we were to take away all of the money from the government (11.6m+7.6m), it would be an increase of $75.xx per credit, which is a 70% increase from the current $110 to $185. </p>
<p>Math: </p>
<p>State Funding
(0.95)(x) = 7,600,000 … x = 8,000,000
8,000,000 - 7,600,000 = 400,000 shortfall for 2010-11 school year</p>
<p>Property Tax Funding
(0.95)(x) = 11,600,000 … x = 12,210,000
12,200,000 - 11,600,000 = 600,000 shortfall for 2010-11 school year</p>
<p>Difference in State Funding = 1,000,000 (400,000 + 600,000) shortfall for 2010-11 school year</p>
<p>$1,000,000 less dollars has caused tuition per credit hour to increase 5$ + 0.50 (fees) = 5.50$/credit hour total increase for every 1,000,000 dollar loss in state funding. Now imagine if your community college education were not subsidized and 19.2 million dollars were taken away from the budget!!</p>
<p>In conclusion, I would say that, yes having your college education subsidized 19.2 million dollars (2010-11) out of a total 55 million dollar budget is quite substantial.</p>
<p>It is in a state’s best interest to keep the quality of its schools as high as possible. A huge gripe I have with Christie is that he is cutting education aid to public schools, while encouraging more charter schools - and not just in the inner city. And his kids go to private schools, so he has no horse in the race. (I went to Catholics school and my parents always told me it’s a choice that you are willing to pay for despite paying property taxes). </p>
<p>The formula that was used to cut state aid this year was asinine. Our district cut back last year as we were instructed and had a modest surplus. Instead of being held up as a model, we lost 90% of our state funding. If we had NOT cut expenses, still run a deficit, we would not have lost funding. I fail to see how this is a proper incentive. </p>
<p>It’s stupid when my bright, high achieving NJ kid can go to MD, UMass or a SUNY school for less than Rutgers because the state has made poor decisions in the past. Our state finances are a mess and have been so since Christie Whitman, but people have turned a blind eye to it until now. That said, I don’t think education is the place to make cuts. (I do support, however, the requirement that teachers contribute to their healthcare. Also, defined benefit pensions are dinosauers, just look at what they did to the auto industry. State & local governments need to move on and put 401K type plans in place.)</p>
<p>PS - hotsawce…I have a daughter if you had read my post closer. Yes that’s a snarky comment, but so are yours!</p>
<p>Hotsawce, if you’re upset over the fact that high-achieving students are awarded merit scholarships/ incentives, then try earning one yourself. Until then, pay up. </p>
<p>Sorry that you have to take it upon yourself to pay for your own college tuitions; that’s respectable. But there’s no reason to go this far in order to bash or gloat over the fact that other students’ merit scholarships are now being rescinded. That’s unnecessary.</p>