Ruining my life?

<p>So for those who didn't see my other thread on this forum, my situation is this: I come from a very low income, single-parent family. The best school I got into George Washington, which gave me a decent financial aid package but included the maximum Stafford loans, a Perkins loan, AND a nearly $9000 per year "gap" to be covered by little elves or, in my case, more loans, for a total debt load of about $16,000 per year or $64,000 total. I am going to appeal this and maybe, due to some special circumstances, I will get more. I am also applying for summer jobs and private scholarships.</p>

<p>But I am still haunted by the possibility of actually taking out this kind of money in loans. Basically, I have been conditioned by my mom to believe that all student loans are evil debt monsters that ruin your life. My mom constantly shows me articles about people whose student loans destroyed them, who couldn't get a job and ended up living with their parents and never being financially stable enough to get married or buy a house, and similar horror stories. There don't seem to be a lot of stories about people who take on $65k in undergraduate debt and go on to live normal, happy, successful lives.</p>

<p>So basically, I'm not really asking for advice on reducing my debt load or various reasons why that would be inadvisable or less than ideal. What I want to know is, if I did have to borrow this kind of money, is that justifiable? Would I really be ruining my life? After all, most people take out loans. They can't all be living in their cars...</p>

<p>would your mother even co-sign? </p>

<p>What do you want to major in?</p>

<p>I will echo question, is she actually willing to co-sign on a loan that large? </p>

<p>My standard response to this question would be a resounding NO. That school has given you an unaffordable package, time to move on and since you were accepted into GWU I am sure there are other schools of similar quality who will offer you an even better aid package. Sure as long as you can find nice job after graduating, you won’t be living in your car but…there’s always going to be that specter looming over eating up a nice chunk of your paycheck every month for years to come. Save the high debt for Graduate School if you plan on going.</p>

<p>@poetgirl: No, my mom will probably not cosign. However, my grandparents probably would and they can afford to. </p>

<p>I plan on double-majoring in political science and political communication. My dream is to go into politics, working on political campaigns, and hopefully manage a presidential campaign someday. I would have to start out as a field organizer, which doesn’t pay that well and comes with complications like frequent moves and periods of unemployment between campaigns, and I know that’s not ideal. Hopefully, I will eventually make $100k+ per year. Top staffers on the Obama campaign made $12k a month and that was considered on the low side.</p>

<p>Do you have any other, less expensive options?</p>

<p>The reason I ask is because of what you want to do. The more freedom you can have, the better off you will be. Also, don’t forget that politics happen at the local level, too, and Florida is such a swing state it is one of those states where you can get real traction.</p>

<p>Plus, you are going to want to go to graduate school, if this is your real goal, and to be all tapped out already seems really a wasted opportunity if you have any less expensive options.</p>

<p>I mean, keep in mind that Obama started in Illinois, not DC. Just as an example. And he ran his last campaign out of Illinois, not DC, and he used people from Illinois, who he’d known before he had any power. Just, people tend to work with their local people, even when they head to DC.</p>

<p>FWIW</p>

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<p>Not really. I got into GW, American, and Florida State. GW is easily the best of the three and my favorite by far. American’s FA was only a little better than GW’s. Florida State is ok but I’d still be in debt. I’m not one of those brilliant CCers with an Ivy League acceptance in one hand and a full ride to a top flagship in the other. Either way, I will be in debt. Either way, I won’t be going to an amazing school that will guarantee the best job opportunities. I am asking if it is worth it to go into moderate debt for a moderately good (great personal fit) school.</p>

<p>Graduate school is a maybe. I’ve thought about getting a master’s in something like political management or public policy. It’s really not essential to my career though.</p>

<p>65K is not moderate debt for an undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>I would advise my own kids against it. Anything above the Staffords is really too much. YOu talk about living in your car. Good luck getting a car out of college with that kind of debt.</p>

<p>What is the monthly payment on that debt? What do you expect to earn? Do you understand that anything you borrow beyond the subsidized staffords begins to accumulate interest when you borrow, not when you graduate? So, it’s already more than 65K.</p>

<p>Do the math and figure out the payments. </p>

<p>You can plug the numbers in here to see for yourself:
<a href=“Mapping Your Future: Page not found”>http://mappingyourfuture.org/paying/standardcalculator.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Good luck to you.</p>

<p>Ugh keep cross posting…</p>

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<p>Well yes, he did use some people who he’d worked with for a long time in Illinois, especially David Axelrod, but for the most part his top advisers, David Plouffe, Jim Messina, Stephanie Cutter, Robert Gibbs, Jeremy Bird, etc. were longtime national operatives and even Axelrod had been a consultant working on campaigns all over the country for a while. Anyway, I’m not exactly sure staying in Florida and grabbing hold of my state senator is the best career plan, lol.</p>

<p>Sorry the political geek in me is rearing its head. But thank you for the advice.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for that link! It had the monthly payment at a little more than $700, assuming an interest rate of 6.8%. Ouch. But some of my loans are federal Perkins loans which I think are lower. Does that figure assume interest accumulates immediately, like with private loans, or later, as with federal loans?</p>

<p>A couple of things: I’m not the huge expert on loans and financial aid that you will find on here. We are full pay, and we have lived our lives as debt averse for our whole life. It’s been a good policy. I wish you the best of luck.</p>

<p>Also, I’ve known Obama’s people since he was running for state senator in Illinois and they were coming to us for donations, and many of the people he brought with him were and are from Illinois. This is some standard stuff. Yes, you named some of his more visible aids. I’m talking about his campaigns, which is the beginning.</p>

<p>But, if you really believe that DC, crowded full of political wannabes will offer you better opportunities than Florida, then you will make whatever choices you make. From the vantage point of my age, though, I can tell you that you will find much better opportunities in your own state than you will with an undergrad degree in washington DC.</p>

<p>Yes think about this very carefully, student loans are notoriously hard to discharge, if you can’t make the payments your co-signers will have to pick up the tab. I still say no undergraduate degree is worth that much debt, there’s always options out there.</p>

<p>Here is my belief, If you are going to make into the political arena, with work ethic and determination you will regardless if your degree comes from Florida State. I don’t think it is worth that kind of debt for a career field that has so many unknowns. What happens if you don’t land a big job…what happens if $700 is a 1/3 of your take home in an area like DC where we paid $1500 for apt rent 20 yrs ago!</p>

<p>I am not typically debt adverse but in this case I am.</p>

<p>Opportunities in DC are great, there’s no doubt about that. But don’t expect to be making very much for the summer or after graduation. DC is full of high achieving local students and professionals aiming for the same jobs you aspire to (you have ~ 9 colleges/universities within a 30 min drive from DC).</p>

<p>$64k in student loans is a lot!!! And pay in the DC are for recent grads, especially in PoliSci, is not glamorous. I would not recommend you saddle yourself with this type of debt. There are other options to reach your goal.</p>

<p>Ugh.</p>

<p>$64,000 is a lot of money.</p>

<p>$64,000 is a lot of money for just a bachelor’s degree. </p>

<p>On top of that $64,000 will be the INTEREST that those loans have during your 25 YEARS of loan repayment. </p>

<p>INTEREST can balloon student loans. That $64K isn’t “only” $64K.</p>

<p>Do you really know what loan repayments for $64K would be? See my other posts.</p>

<p>Better yet, see the replies of everyone else in your other thread about this same topic. You have a number of issues here. Your mom is jobless and your house is underwater. You want to attend a school that costs $50K plus when your mom “makes” $25K a year. That is unfortunately the reality sometimes. People don’t end up making as much money as they thought they would. Sometimes people get laid off. Or the economy tumbles. Sometimes people just can’t find jobs to begin with. Or they majored in the wrong thing (by the way, PSC isn’t exactly a money maker unless you later go to law school).</p>

<p>You’re drastically overestimating what you’ll make after you graduate. Look at your mom’s situation. She probably didn’t expect to be “making” $25K ever, but that’s unfortunately how it is right now. Does she plan to return to work? How is she even surviving and paying for a $300K house on $25K a year? Is she taking out second and third mortgages on the house? Perhaps you should postpone college a year, work full-time, and help the family situation… perhaps mom can find a job as well.</p>

<p>By the way, NO school guarantees your success. You can graduate from GWU, Harvard, Podunk University… and still succeed or fail. GWU isn’t a golden ticket to success.</p>

<p>See me username? Yeah. I went to GWU. See my other posts for what I thought of it.</p>

<p>You are hugely, HUGELY overestimating the income you’ll make right out of college. Do you seriously think you’ll “easily” get a $100,000 job right out of college? Not. Gonna. Happen. The jobs that pay well are hugely competitive with thousands and thousands of people competing for them. The average starting salary for someone who just graduated here in DC is in the mid $30,000s to right at $40,000. Yeah, far from your $100K, eh?</p>

<p>So, lets run the numbers with the average starting salary for recent graduates in DC. Say you make the average starting salary for a college graduate in DC and take home $2200 after taxes income each month. Say your rent is $1200 in DC after you graduate. By the way, $1200 only gets you a tiny 1 bedroom apartment here in the suburbs, or a very very tiny efficiency apartment in Adams Morgan. Minus rent, that leaves you $1000. Minus those student loan payments of $700 leaves you… $300. UMMM… you haven’t eaten yet. And, you haven’t bought clothes, entertainment, phone, cable, subway and/or transportation, etc. Have you looked at the cost of DC rent? Once you graduate, there are “real world” costs like rent, healthcare, transportation, in addition to those student loan repayments. </p>

<p>You mention grad school. So, you want to go $64,000 (at least) in debt for a bachelor’s degree. Then another few dozen thousand dollars for graduate or law school? Yikes.</p>

<p>Oh, and yes, there are tons and tons of students in DC with similar (or better) credentials and ambition than you. Some less, some more. Thousands of you are competing for the same jobs.</p>

<p>Note my username. G-W-G-R-A-D. Yep. </p>

<p>P.S.- Most people don’t take out THAT much in student loans. The average student loan debt is much, much less than your proposal.</p>

<p>P.S.S.- I took out more student loans than that. It SUCKS.</p>

<p>See my other posts on student loan debt and average starting salaries.</p>

<p>I like this oracle aka loan calculator:
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | Loan Calculator](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Loan Payment Calculator - Finaid)</p>

<p>Their humble opinion is as follows:
"Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $748.02 plus a final payment of $748.39.</p>

<p>It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $89,762.40 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $59,841.60, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1. "</p>

<p>This is debt that cannot be discharged under bankruptcy except under very unusual circumstances, so you have to think in terms of the worse case scenario. Don’t do it.</p>

<p>A couple of thoughts.</p>

<p>I have degrees in the majors you are thinking about. Salaries, starting out and frankly continuing, are not great. The debt you are considering is too large. It will probably force you to change career tracks, as you have to pay, this is not debt that can be disappeared.</p>

<p>Just as you can do Junior year abroad, you can do a semester or year in DC, I believe. You can do internships every summer. Lots of opportunities both in DC and in state capitals.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is that high debt can affect security clearances needed for some government and consulting positions.</p>

<p>Your mother is right. I am not against all loans, and when parents, students, the whole family works together, it can be doable. But your mother is making it VERY CLEAR, like absolutely no doubt, that she wants NO PART of this, and you should not be dragging her into the picture, especially since she does not have the resources, and dragged in she will be if you take out the kind of debt that you are considering.</p>

<p>You should read some of GWgrad’s posts. He’s living the reality that you are seeking. And he’s successful with a good job. </p>

<p>Where do you think you are going to get an additional $9K in loans anyways? Not without a qualified co signer. Not going to happen. And if you don’t have a job in the wings right now, getting one with sufficient hours to amass the kind of money you need is unlikely. What you have earned and saved in the past is the best indicator of what you will be doing in the near future, with a bump up for effort, but it takes a while to get up to the peak. Not in time to make $9K. My kids, and my cousin’s kids worked and saved all through high school and had jobs at their finger tips that they were pretty sure were good for the money. They work(ed) weekends, vacations and kept their hand in that till to ensure as much as possible that these were realistic options. </p>

<p>GW or any sleep away college for just $9K a year seems like a wonderful bargain. But really, it isn’t just $9K. How much are you borrowing already? Is there work study in that award? You do understand that though you can work on bringing down some of those COA figures, stuff happens. It always does. We, as a family have a high income and buffers, and we’ve been hit by some stuff this past year, and some other select years, and them gremlins can do a lot of damage even with allowances and contingencies in place. Your mother is so against loans because she KNOWS, she can feel it to the marrow of her bones how it feels to owe and that she can’t, absolutely CAN NOT take on anymore and is probably scared to death of what the future holds. I’m seeing this with a lot of my single friends who don’t have savings, don’t make much on the jobs, have little or no support from anyone else. </p>

<p>You are in the position to being able to help your mom through some rough times that may be coming as she crosses over from middle age to old age in a low income situation that will likely just get lower. I’m older, most likely that she is and a lot of my peers are making this transition and it’s tough. To have a child also in debt, needing help and not able to give much of a hand makes it all that much harder.</p>

<p>My son has what is considered a good job at reasonable pay at this point–in his late 20s as does his SO, and they are barely scraping by due to expenses to get to that point. Thank goodness they have no school loans. It was difficult enough without them. The SO is in a master’s program now which makes her downright broke. Can’t make much more without that degree, will get an auto bump up in pay even if she stays where she is with the degree, but got turned down by very competitive state programs two years in a row, so is now biting the bullet and paying full price private. If she had loans, it would be just insurmountable. THat she does not, makes it barely possible. She is envied by her co workers that just flat out cannot afford to do what she is doing because it costs too much and most of them have loans, some in both directions, their kids’ and theirs, yes, it happens when you take on 25 year term loans. They are worse than mortgages at that point.</p>

<p>So yes, it kills me that someone may have to walk away from a $9K a year gap. But, I reiterate, it isn’t going to be just $9K. Believe me it won’t. Most schools expect a larger student contribution each year, so I do suspect your Perkins will go up in amount; your Staffords absolutely will. Have you been allocated work study as well in your package? Because if you have, some of your time has already been conscripted to pay off the financial aid package and not usable towards your EFC. </p>

<p>I also want to address your “most people have loans”. Most people who have loans have a job or some backing to get that loan. School loans are federally backed so the standards are low to get them. If it’s regular old untethered loans you are talking about, there would be no discussion. You wouldn’t be eligible for a dime. No one is going to give an 18 year old an unsecured loan, most likely not even a secured one. No one. Try to go out there and get one, if you don’t believe me. Even with a car securing it, they’ll want a cosigner, and the interest rates would usurious, the place not so reputable that would give you a car loan and the repo man would out there to get your car within a week of a late payment with penalties up the whazooie. YOU cannot get loans on the open market. The only reason you are even allowed to take out the loans offered to you in your financial aid package is because the federal government is guaranteeing them. And in guaranteeing them, they are not dischargeable. Not till death do you part. They are more binding than the wedding vows, my dear. They will hound you, prevent you from getting jobs, apartments, cars, any loans, starting a business go after you through tax returns and even go after your social security if you can avoid them that long. And if your poor mother co signs they’ll go after her too. Like she needs that. </p>

<p>If you don’t see the evidence of the carnage from loans, you have your head in the sand. Haven’t you read about the housing bubble and foreclosures? And those folks had SECURED loans. They also had the possibility to go bankrupt. Look up the bankruptcy rolls and you’ll see the harm loans do. And these are the lucky ducks that can default. You can’t blow off the student loans because they are for life. Can’t discharge them through bankruptcy. That is why you are even being offered the option. </p>

<p>It’s highly unlikely you’ll have a job in hand at graduation, and even within the six months grace you have before having to start paying on those loans. And some of them will be unsubsidized so that the 7% meter would have been ticking from the instant they were discharged. Your unsub Staffords of $2K from freshman year alone will have cranked up about $400 in interest by then. Do the math.</p>

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<p>Echoing the other posters…NO, that kind of debt for an undergrad degree isn’t justifiable and YES, you would be most likely ruining your life.</p>

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<p>You pretty much answered your own question right there. There’s a reason why there aren’t many stories like that. It’s HIGHLY unlikely you could take on this much debt as a young adult even on an above average starting salary and not have it severly impact the next few decades of your life.</p>

<p>While it’s true that many students do take out SOME loans, the average student debt is around $24K-$25K after four years. Rough math would tell me that for every student like you that takes on $64K in debt, there are three other students who managed to earn their undergrad degrees with an average of $12K in loans each. Bottom line…there are affordable alternatives for every student. I understand it isn’t what you want to do, but it’s what you need to do.</p>

<p>Many of the kids who take on excessive debt in Freshman and Sophomore years find it is unstainable and transfer to In-State U. So they end up paying a lot of debt for the same degree that someone else paid much less.</p>