<p>Anyone know of a rule of thumb for an applicant's average SAT 2 scores needed to be in a "match" range (not withstanding other factors of course)? That is, the top 2 scores out of however many they have taken? I have found very little on this subject.</p>
<p>Or are they looked at totally independently, rather than averaged?</p>
<p>I seem to recall someone a while back mentioning such an average as a comparison to SAT 1 scores.....here's what I reconstruct from vague memory: As a ballpark, calculate the school's SAT 1 average from the 25-75 percentiles & assume a SAT 2 average threshold above half of that mark is "OK/good". Example, Podunk U has a 25-75 SAT 1 CR+M spread of 1250-1450, with a ballpark average of 1350 (and they require 2 SAT 2's). Half of that number is 675. SAT 2 scores of 650, 670, and 710. Toss out the 650, average of the remaining 2 is 690, which is greater than 675, hence SAT 2's are a "match". Is this method way off base, and if so, what other guidelines are out there?</p>
<p>BTW, Williams is one of the few colleges I've noticed that posts some distributions of SAT 2 scores:
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/admission/life_classinfo.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admission/life_classinfo.php</a> (anyone know what they mean by re-centering the SAT 2 scores?)
This helps for Williams, but not for others. I note that a rough guestimate on the Williams' SAT 2 average comes pretty darn close to their SAT 1 CR+M average divided by 2, but that's a pretty noisy guestimate. Also, in a recent press release, Williams mentioned that they are using the SAT 1 writing in the same evaluation bucket as the SAT 2's, so I'd guess that they may throw in the SAT 1 writing score into that subject test average calculation.</p>
<p>CB recented the scores ~1990 to move the "average" up above 500 on each test. The biggest impact was that a student did not need to get each question correct to score an 800 -- could miss one on M and several on V. However, based on what I read on these boards, an 800 math under new SAT requires 80 correct answers.</p>
<p>thanks blue...I was referring to the Williams link that mentioned that they re-centered the class of 2009's SAT 2's scores.....had heard of the general ~1990 SAT 1 re-centering, but no ad hoc re-centering method to apply to SAT subject tests. I guess SAT 2's do have very inconsistent percentile-score distributions; maybe it has something to do with that.</p>
<p>So, nobody has insight on the "how to evaluate SAT 2's" question?</p>
<p>guess I'm just not getting something here. Here's what the Williams SAT 2 table header reads:
"SAT-II SCORES FOR THE CLASS OF 2009
All Subjects
Note: These are re-centered scores."</p>
<p>As the SAT scores have been reported as recentered for years now, and Williams table is only for one recent year (last year), not multiple years spanning back in time, guess I inferred that they, Williams, manipulated the numbers somehow. I just have not noticed such re-centering notation on other recent SAT data tables before, as its been a while. I now think I must be wrong there, and its more likely that their title notation on recentering must be very outdated, unless I'm missing something, which is, as proven herein, quite possible. </p>
<p>BTW, I'm looking for other college-reported SAT 2 scores to see if they fit the model described in post 1....anyone with an opinion?</p>
<p>csshsm-- pre-new-SAT w/ writing, the writing SAT 2 was often one of the required subject test SATs, usually one of 3 required. Now, many colleges that required 3 SAT 2's before, now only require 2 (exceptions are out there, like Harvard). I have heard that the new SAT 1 writing will be used for evaluation purposes on a college-specific basis as a track record is built. </p>
<p>Since Williams only requires 2 SAT 2's now, I infer that the new SAT 1 writing score is being thrown in the same bucket as the other 2 SAT 2's, just like the SAT 2 writing used to be. I have no idea if other institutions are treating the SAT 1 writing the same way.</p>
<p>PC ~ I don't know the answer to your original query; sorry. But it seems doubtful to me that a rule of thumb could be too useful on SAT II scores, except by major, since there is such a large variance in the score distributions by subject. For example, at a university with an engineering school the engineering kids are likely to be required to take the Math 2C and at least one other science SAT II. Of course, given the selectivity of the school and the level of international participation in the program, the average scores could vary a lot compared to the verbal portion of the SAT I. And even if one could figure out such a rule of thumb for the engineering kids, I would guess that a different rule would apply for the art history majors at the same university...and it is even harder to consider the utility of any rule if the university in question is offerring an "average" 25-75% range for the SAT I scores for a combined pool of art history and engineering applicants...</p>
<p>All that being said, I have noticed among top students on CC who are headed for engineering/science that they seem more likely to have an 800 on the SAT I than on the SAT II tests. I attribute this unscientific impression of mine to superior preparation for the SAT I. I would go further and guess that there is often a gap of 30-50 points between the average of the Math/Verbal on SAT I and the average of the top three SAT II scores, but again that is just my impression, and CC is a scary place to form impressions...</p>
<p>good points reasonabledad.....having a S who is definitely not going the science-math route, I hadn't fully contemplated that perspective. Guess I'm coming at it for a humanities-type student that needs to post 2 decent SAT 2 scores in general, not ones particularly focused on their future area of study.</p>
<p>FYI, I've searched a few of the most selective schools, and have only come up with 3 that post anything related to SAT 2 scoring track record:</p>
<p>UC Berkeley<br>
Fall 2005 Freshman Profile*<br>
Average SAT I scores (middle 50%) <em>Verbal:</em> 590-710 / Math:* 630-740
Average SAT II scores <em>Writing:</em> 600-740 / Math:* 620-760 </p>
<p>Princeton (2005) 3 highest SAT 2's<br>
....................................Applicants / Admits / Enrollees
SAT I Verbal (highest) ....650780 / 700790 / 700780
SAT I Math (highest) ......700790 / 700800 / 700790
SAT II Subject Tests .....650750 / 700780 / 700770</p>
<p>Williams
SAT-II SCORES FOR THE CLASS OF 2009
All Subjects
Note: These are re-centered scores.
Score Received / Percent of Class
.........800-750 / 32
.........740-700 / 35
.........690-650 / 20
.........640-600 / 8
.........590-550 / 3
.......below 550 / 1 </p>
<p>a rough calculation using the Williams percentiles puts the average SAT 2 score somewhere near 705-710. I presume Writing is factored into their numbers.</p>
<p>Difficult to extract much from these data, but in general, the SAT 2 averages fit the SAT 1 averages. Top end of UC Berkeley's writing & math SAT 2's do look a bit higher than V & M on SAT 1, and top end of Princeton's average SAT 2's look a bit lower.</p>
<p>PC ~ I see the problem...I thought there was more data released from Berkeley a few years back in the Moore report, but it probably just shows more inexplicable variability.</p>
<p>Also, as the level of the scores goes up (above 700) the RHS tail of the distribution in progressively chopped off because sometimes the kid who missed three problems gets an 800, as does the kid who missed two, the one who missed one, and the one who missed none...</p>
<p>Also, some tests get repeat sittings much more frequently than others, so those who liked their scores keep them and those who didn't study and retake. Again, I suspect that this leads to a need to get rules of thumbs by major. In that sense, I have much less to offer for your humanities student...that's not where I came from and it's not where my kids seem to be headed, so I pay less attention to that area.</p>
<p>I also don't understand what the Williams data means. And I did not know that SAT IIs were also re-centered when the SAT I was. I'm surprised to hear this, and might almost suspect a type in the header.</p>
<p>Unlike most colleges, the UC's will only accept and report SAT-I scores from a SINGLE sitting....thus, students put down their highest composite score from one day. As a result, the UC SAT I scores are biased downward in comparison to other schools.</p>