<p>As NJ residents, we removed Rutgers from consideration for my son for a variety of reasons, but most importantly the uncertainty of funding and organization going forward. They are being forced to drop programs, classes, cut employment and raise tuition all at once. There are plans to combine the various colleges which will affect the entire university in unknown ways. Who wants to get into that kind of mess? </p>
<p>Here is an interesting story. Executive summary: Top student, REALLY top student, private school, 1570 SAT, NJ Star Ledger scholar, plenty of family money for tuition, improbably, turns down Brown, Penn, MIT and Johns Hopkins, to go to Rutgers!! Apparently he took some classes at Rutgers while in HS and developed a good relationship with a professor there. Oh, and did I mention he was a state champ fencer? He wanted to fence at a strong D1 program. To save money, Rutgers has cut fencing and 5 other "minor" varsity sports. Now he will have to go to school elsewhere. Lucky for him he found out when he did. </p>
<p>Yup, not feeling so bad or so worried for this kid or kids like him. Guess his parents and he might have thought, given their analytical skills, that maybe it is not a great idea to place a sport, any sport, and the playing of that sport as a PRIMARY factor in selecting a college-- when the other options MIGHT just meet the goal of an EDUCATION a bit more comprehensively (?) and allowed the playing of said sport as well. </p>
<p>I understand that there is also the mentoring relationship with A professor to consider. Gosh, what if that professor leaves for other pastures as well. </p>
<p>This was a poorly reasoned choice by a kid with excellent options. This is not THE MAIN reason to worry about higher education in New Jersey.</p>
<p>Actually I think unifying and streamlining RU is a good idea that could save at least half of what was cut. Why on earth do you need, what, 5 different admin and admissions staffs. Make it one and make it proud. And thow in the Medical College of NJ too.</p>
<p>Throughout NJ secondary education as well there is incredible administrative redundancy as a result of there being very little regionalization. Given the incredibly high % of the state budget that goes to education, what is happening at the U level will hopefully be a lead into similar measures at the secondary level. I believe this will be a legislative imperative in the years ahead.</p>
<p>i never could stomach even the possibility of applying, let alone going to rutgers. the fact is rutgers is one of those state universities that doesn't really mean anything to most people. New jersey is very affluent, and I would say most kids can afford to go to private schools, and if not private, they can afford (especially now) to send their kids to penn state, a better state school, which costs the same OOS as rutgers now does instate.</p>
<p>Jags, I think everyone feels that their state school is overrated. Lots of students in Pennsylvania dread the thought of going to Penn State for the very same reasons. As overrated as Rutgers may seem in New Jersey, it's more well-respected out of state (i.e., if you were applying for a job in California, your employer would know Rutgers, especially compared to smaller NJ schools). </p>
<p>Anyway, every year my school sends a couple dozen top students to Rutgers, mainly because most of us depend on merit aid. Many areas in the state are far from affluent. People in my school (including me) are lucky enough to go to a private school only if we get a generous financial aid package. And I think that's really the saddest thing about the budget cuts-- Rutgers is going to lose a LOT of great students who have cheaper and perhaps more desirable options out of state. </p>
<p>I'm having a hard time feeling bad for the kid in the newspaper article, too... Like anitaw said, fencing and a friendship with a professor should not have been this kid's sole reasons for going to Rutgers. His other schools probably had amazing fencing programs... and I really can't blame Rutgers for not making fencing one of their top priorities.</p>
<p>It isn't just fencing--Rutgers also cut varsity tennis and two versions of crew--not mass sports, but sports with a long and excellent tradition at the school. More to the point, these are the kind of sports that appeal to a demographic (kids who don't need financial aid and can afford to go elsewhere) that Rutgers has a hard time reaching. Most good flagship universities have their share of smart in-state kids from fairly affluent families. Think UVa or Michigan. Rutgers slapped families like that in the face with this particular set of specialized cuts, on top of other things that have happened on campus over the past few years. This is very bad public relations in a state that struggles to keep its strongest students in state and that burdens its suburban taxpayers without giving them much in return--Essex County's Olmsted-designed parks, for example, are in a general state of ongoing disrepair.</p>
<p>This particular kid had a lot to offer Rutgers and while I think his original decision to attend was not especially wise, I think Rutgers will lose more than he will from this publicity.</p>
<p>i don't feel that the state univerities in my state are overrated. i think tcnj is a really good school. But $19,000 in tuition to go to rutgers? please. its not that great - and definately isn't worth 19,000 a year for an instate student (who knows what the oos is now). The school is simultaneously cutting programs, getting rid of its scholarship program, and raising its tuition. its sad, but the school is just going down the crapper.</p>
<p>Rutgers suffers from the problem that is most serious IMO in New Jersey. Too many cooks in the kitchen, that is each little town has its own Administration, School Board, fire and police and on and on.</p>
<p>Rutgers had five separate admissions policies for students who would be seeking to enter the University. Worst, the standards for graduation were different at all five colleges, yet the classes and faculty were one big collection in the center.</p>
<p>The changes come to late for my children, but if the streamlining is moderately successful and they finally get some sense of a campus central which brings the five colleges into some sort of prideful relationship, then it might be a great school.</p>
<p>Location is unfortunately in New Brunswick, a town which has had its best days too many decades ago and has a long way to go. The effect the city has on students going to the main campus is another reason why so many students go oos.</p>
<p>I just read the article and my understanding is that he works with professors, not just one. And several professors urged him to come to Rutgers. If a kid is very bright, has already (prior to freshman year) earned a spot doing research at the University, is recognized as a gem by several professors, and is not going blindly to an unknown campus, it could be a good decision. I remember our town val (1600 SAT) living at home & attending Montclair State. It seemed crazy to me, but I dont know the family circumstances & the opportunities being given to her either. </p>
<p>The fencing decision was only part of Rutgers' appeal. Keep in mind that the articles's author, Bob Braun, is the paper's muckracking investigative journalist. Have an injustice, or administrative headache, call Bob & a feature gets written. I think the family is using this article as leverage to reinstate the fencing program. They are not rubes.</p>
<p>Re: crew & fencing. It's a misconception that only wealthy kids take part in these sports. Any town with a river nearby can take part in crew. Look at Kearny & Belleville in NJ. Blue collar towns by any measure boasting long-standing crew programs. While the fancy prep schools have dedicated fencing gyms with built in electronics, less wealthy districts have kids practicing in the caff. A fencing budget is a drop in the bucket compared to football.</p>
<p>I agree with all the NJ posters that our state is messed-up in our educational funding methods. Both secondary schools & colleges. Too many patronage positions and little fiefdoms and outright fraudulent practices. NJ is the corruption/nepotism leader of the US. I'm so pround!</p>
<p>Don't forget the "free" factor. The only merit aid given by NJ state schools is for the val/sal or thereabouts with 2300+SAT. The boy in question is surely going for free, and since he went to Pingry at about $25,000 per year, I am sure that his parents can afford the Rutgers tuition. What I get upset about, as a NJ resident, is that the merit money is also given to out-of-staters with those stats. Just like UMich and UVA (LOL). Most NJ residents get nothing.</p>
<p>I think some people are forgetting that Rutgers has an excellent faculty (at least in some areas I'm familiar with) -- far better than it's overall reputation. Because NJ is generally affluent and adjacent to Pennsylvania and New York, it's a place where lots of academics end up because their spouses have high paying jobs nearby, or because two academic spouses can find jobs within 100 miles of each other (not always easy at all). It's not unreasonable for a top student to believe he could get a top education at Rutgers -- really, the problems are finding enough peers and surviving the budget politics, as at any state university.</p>
<p>while i don't know about michigan, virginia doesn't give out any merit scholarships. the jefferson scholarship is supported by alumni who live in certain states (i think there are about 20-25 states with one). for example, since i'm from new jersey, and the new jersey virginia alums do not support a jefferson scholarship, i am ineligable to get a merit scholarship at uva, regardless of what I did in high school.</p>
<p>Also, like I said - rutgers - meh. sorry rutgers alum/attendees. unfortunately saying "i go to rutgers" doesn't mean anywhere near as much as "i went to chapel hill" or "i went to madison" or "i went to michigan" - even though it has roughly the same selectivity.</p>
<p>My OOS son was offered 15,000/yr by UMich, so yes, they do give merit to people from other states. But I believe there are many more scholarships there that are in-state only.</p>
<p>This is why I have to cringe everytime I see someone here say, don't go to an expensive private school and go into debt, it's not worth it, just go to your state university! Yeah, ok, I don't think so. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't give me much financial aid anyway which would end up making the private schools cheaper by comparison in the long run, even though still expensive overall. Although when I was applying they didn't have my major at any of NJ's schools except NJIT so it was never even a consideration to begin with.</p>
<p>I don't think I know anyone that actually wanted to go to Rutgers, although I know of a few people that ended up there and a few people that wanted to go to TCNJ. I think one of the problems small states like NJ have in general is that kids want to go "away" for college, and no matter where you're from in NJ if you go to a state school you haven't really gone very far, geographically. So they have to have something else to make it seem more attractive.</p>
<p>I think this thread is being incredibly unfair to Rutgers. Although I don't go there, my parents are alumni, I have two cousins and a close friend in the school, and a younger brother who will probably go there as well.</p>
<p>The budget cuts will hurt, and everyone I know is upset about them. However, the consensus from my family and friends is that RU is still a school with top faculty, great resources, and some very good students. It isn't a hand-holding kind of place, but opportunities are all over if you take the initiative - especially in the Honors Program. I don't think anyone would claim that it could compare to really top schools, which is why I chose to go to Princeton on half tuition rather than Rutgers for free. However, I believe I would have gotten a great education and had a great time at RU as well - and I hope that, had I not gotten into my first choice school, I would have had the sense to think long and hard about whether or not the "best" schools I had gotten into were worth it.</p>
<p>There are very broad strokes being painted by some here about Rutgers.
It is a very diverse school, some programs stronger than others, even considering the budget cuts. Pharmacy and many sciences are and will be strong.<br>
Our son finished two years at TCNJ and will complete his degree at Rutgers at Mason Gross School of the Arts. For him, it is the right move, even financially. His alternative (and preferred) school would cost us $45K per year. So we still think it's a bargain of sorts.</p>
<p>I think there are many misconceptions being perpertrated about Rutgers. My son will be attending as a freshman in the fall, and I can assure you that Penn State does not cost the same to an out of state student as Rutgers does to an in state one. It cost 1/3 more, attracts the same sort and caliber of student and is in a less advantageous physical locale than New Brunswick, with its great access to trains to NYC.
Also, you decidedly do not need an SAT score of 2300 in order to receive merit money from Rutgers. The exact matrix of scores plus class ranking is listed on their website.<br>
We have heard many amazing things about the school from many satisfied customers. Of course, we are worried about budget cuts but we are hoping for the best. Only time will tell.</p>
<p>Most people are very happy in Happy Valley. It is an ideal college town unlike NB which offers little and who has the $$$ to go out in NYC very often? I'd rather go to a good party near campus and meet kids I might see again than go off to NYC.</p>