<p>no one is saying rutgers gives a poor education - we are simply stating that it is not worth it.</p>
<p>It isn't the only school "not worth it" but it happens to be the one talked about. I could very well open up a thread that says "caldwell college, not worth it" or "fairfield college, not worth it" or "east stroudsburg university, not worth it", but rutgers is a school that people are talkig about.</p>
<p>A friend's son will be attending TCNJ. They apparently were notified that because of the budget woes, the school will no longer supply toilet paper and trash bags!!!! If our state schools are truly left with no choice but to eliminate crucial sanitary items, then one wonders about the quality of the education in general. Frankly, we felt sending our son there was too much of a risk, though the free ride was tempting. An experience I had last week convinced me that we made a wise choice. I was at the Rutger's medical school's hospital in Newark (UMDNJ). There was no soap in the hospital public restrooms, if you can fathom that. I was appalled. So, even if the budget cuts aren't totally to blame, then the corruption that is being exposed must be rampant. There's no way that the high taxes we pay in this state should be insufficient to cover soap and TP.</p>
<p>This is a startling thread for a senior like me, an OOS considering Rutgers as a great biology program. if the budget cuts continue (and the horrid story of BYOTP--bringing your own toilet paper....), will it affect students like me?</p>
<p>the budget cut especially concerns me, since I will be a biology student, requiring the continual financial support of both state and the college to do research, as well as the outlook of future advancement in technology in the sciences department.</p>
<p>Re: my post above, I thought I should clarify that by "no soap" I don't mean the dispenser was empty, which though still shocking might be a case of ineffective maintenance. In both the ladies' and men's room there was no soap dispenser at all--just the ugly space on the wall where the dispenser had once been. And as for maintenance, the lab floor where we went was visibly dirty.</p>
<p>TP/Trash bags are not the most important issue, but I would find it strange to have to supply toilet paper, after paying 19,000+ for my instate student to attend TCNJ or Rutgers. The larger classes, cut programs, are of greater concern to me.</p>
<p>You're right, of course, northeastmom--actual academic resources are more important. The point was that our institutions are being squeezed pretty hard if that is one cost-cutting measure they are choosing. I mean, cutting small and non-academic programs like the fencing team, which affects a very limited group of students, seems appropriate and the kind of measure you'd expect. Skimping on TP seems more drastic to me. Imagine your own household. If you needed to reduce spending, would soap and TP be near the top of the list of frills or at the very bottom?</p>
<p>Wonder if they took this measure b/c it makes for an interesting 10 second news story, and will bring attention to the problems in our state regarding higher education. I find it sad. We pay such high taxes, our instate tuition is a little less than what I will paying for oos for my S, and then TP cannot be supplied. What is next? Are the ketchup and mustard the next things to go? I was so proud of TCNJ when I toured it. Things can change quickly, can't they.</p>
<p>Yes, I also wondered if it was designed to motivate residents to petition our legislators because TCNJ had sent out an appeal to parents a while back asking for our support/lobbying efforts in relation to the scholarships funding.</p>
<p>I felt the same as you when we toured. The campus was beautiful and the school seemed to be working so hard to be a quality institution. Again, we felt sad to turn down the full ride and laptop, but weren't sure the quality was there and would be maintained.</p>
<p>ICargirl - the barbs thrown at Rutgers are well deserved. Virtually all of the schools in the top 20 in the 40's and 50's have leveraged that advantage and have either held on to that advantage or improved upon it. Not Rutgers. The criticism is thus not arbitrary - but borne from the fact they have fallen so far. </p>
<p>One of the RU 1000 professors - seemingly a standout in his field, has a great deal of angst over the rise of the TCNJ - which while good for those who attend that school does appear to have taken opportunities from Rutgers. These professors feel (not fair) that the State has but them on par with "Trenton State" - an affront to those remember Rutgers storied past. And I will say this - any school that engages in the academic chicaneries and other bandit practices in an athletic program is not on a path to academic success. Rutgers is heading in the wrong direction. </p>
<p>Ahh, New jersey - the great home to tax and spend liberals. Note that with the cuts in education you can bet the public unions will be taken care of - they matter more to the pols than making truly world class institutions - I mean, making competitive world class institutions involves not only tough choices, but a dedication to a true meritocracy - anathema to those who view public institutions as yet another vehicle to feed at the trough. Think i am being too doctrinaire? Perhaps - but New Jersey is now experiencing zero economic growth and it will likely in my view begin shrinking.</p>
<p>Everyone- what should the State cut to make up the 300 million or so that was cut from higher ed. Remember taxes were raised 1 billion so no other tax increase. The avg. state employee costs 50,000 that is inclusive of health car ,pension , social security etc. every 20,000 saves a billion - upon retirement the avg state worker pension is 18,000. What programs do you want to get rid of. Total costs of all salaries and benefits, rent on buildings, supplies and all the costs of operating are 4.5 billion- the budget is 31 billion so 26.5 billion is sent back to towns and boards of ed. less rebates to individuals. Start cutting</p>
<p>Do you think this cost-cutting ways of the NJ state gov't will soon affect the TCNJ's academic facilities as well?</p>
<p>I think the higher ed cuts were amistake, so yes the will impact all the NJ public schools.</p>
<p>Cut the corruption. Cut the triple/quadruple pensions govt. employees & politicians are raking in. Cut pension payments to all politicians serving jail time for corruption charges. Yes, NJ proudly pays big $$$ in pension to jailed politicians who stole from the public.</p>
<p>Demand accountability in all public sector jobs. UMDNJ has money for soap in the washrooms. But some lazy maintenence worker, supervised by an incompetant or corrupt manager, receives no pennalty for refusing to do his job. It is virtually impossible to fire a public sector worker in NJ. Regardless of the seriousness of the transgression.</p>
<p>We fired 3 this week-they had 30, 20 and 8 years on the job. They did not commit a crime either. The waste and fraud story gets old- government is far from perfect but the solution to lower taxes is get rid of programs. If the politicians that get pensions while in jail is a million $ what do you save in a 31 billion dollar budget- again the avg. state worker pension is 18k-
So what program sshould be cut- how many pols in jail for corruption get pensions- it is a sexy story but does not amount to much in savings. I would agree it should not happen but will state again that is not where the taxes go.</p>
<p>This thread IS being very unfair to Rutgers. The main problem is the NJ govt. and how they have neglected to provide even adequate funding. It is truly a shame. </p>
<p>President McCormick is a man who really "gets it" and is working hard to improve Rutgers - in both reality and perception. (better marketing/PR are especially needed)</p>
<p>There are big plans for improvements to campus; and the major undergrad reforms are going to make for a better student experience and more unity. </p>
<p>Rutgers has a tremendous faculty and a lot to offer. It is significantly underrated by NJ residents - who often do not think rationally. Choosing to go to a school like Deleware over RU is downright crazy. While RU is not perfect, it certainly has more to offer than a place like UD. </p>
<p>Also - the notion that New Brunkswick is a bad place to go to school is ridiculous. New Brunswick has tons of bars, restaurants, theatres, culture, etc. And I say this as someone who also went to school in Ann Arbor. I understand what a "college town" is supposed to be. And yes, proximity to NYC is a big selling point. NB is not the quintessential college town, but it has A LOT to offer. </p>
<p>Finally - Football success is going to be a big part of school spirit and pride. People are excited about the program that is being built at RU. While RU has stumbled in the past, they have put the pieces in place to be a very good program.</p>
<p>lawmatt, What about the bus system? What about a research focused vs. student focused school for undergraduates?</p>
<p>My son attended (last week) a college fair at Drew University. Most of the students were attending the NJ Gov School of Science there. My son asked the Rutgers rep about next year's merit packages. Unfortunately, the rep couldn't commit to anything - all he could say was he didn't know what would be offered but something should be offered to the top students. He had handouts outlining the current merit programs, but he said the amounts ($) would most likely be different. One of the parents asked if the amounts would be guaranteed for all 4 yrs, and all he could say was they would be offered as long as $ is available. Most students just walked on by the Rutgers table. Here were some of the top science students in the state - what an opportunity to attract them. What a state we live in! My brother and SIL attended Rutgers NB and enjoyed there time there but they did not send their kid there (went OOS for less than RU). My d also attends a private school OOS for less than attending RU.</p>
<p>One thing that many kids hate about NB is that there is not one central NB campus - the kids are all spread over the place and have to take the bus to visit friends or go to classes. That's one reason some kids prefer UDel, Penn State, or James Madison U. </p>
<p>My son asked about the Rutgers/UMDNJ program thinking maybe he'd consider NB if they continued the merit program (would be free undergrad). But the combined medical program requires the student to attend Rutgers Newark campus for undergrad - not exactly the all around college experience top students are looking for. The rep said students have to go there coz that's where the med school is. But that's not how the TCNJ or Penn State or many other combined programs work. Their students simply move after 3 yrs to another campus. I think most kids would prefer to live in NB than Newark for their undergrad experience.</p>
<p>I never had problems with the bus system. Many students can take most of their classes on one campus, though it varies depending on what you study. Also - starting next year, students will now be able to choose to live on ANY campus - which will make things more convenient, as one can be closer to most of his/her classes if he/she choses to do so.</p>
<p>Regarding undergrad education: If you want a small, undergrad-intensive school, then it makes no sense to go to any big school - RU or anywhere else...</p>
<p>Anyone concerned with undergrad education should go to the link below, which details the major changes/improvements to undegrad education at RU. I think the school is making a very positive change with this plan.</p>
<p>Rutgers is very serious about improving undergrad education. All parents and prospective students should read the following:</p>
<p>March 10, 2006</p>
<p>Update:</p>
<p>Transforming Undergraduate Education</p>
<p>NEW BRUNSWICK/PISCATAWAY, N.J. - The Rutgers Board of Governors today overwhelmingly approved President Richard L. McCormick's bold plan to enhance the quality of undergraduate education throughout the university's largest campus.</p>
<p>The sweeping changes, which follow nearly two years of unprecedented discussion among Rutgers students, faculty, staff and alumni, will improve virtually every aspect of undergraduate learning and life across the New Brunswick/Piscataway campus - from admissions and curriculum to campus facilities and the student experience.</p>
<p>"President McCormick, faculty, students and countless others throughout the Rutgers community deserve tremendous credit for confronting the many challenges that face undergraduates and creating this visionary plan," said board of governors Chairman Albert R. Gamper Jr. "When these changes are fully implemented, undergraduates will enjoy full access to the wide range of educational opportunities offered by this outstanding university."</p>
<p>Most of the changes outlined in McCormick's plan will apply to the undergraduate class that enters the New Brunswick/Piscataway campus in fall 2007.</p>
<p>The implementation process will begin immediately, McCormick said. He encouraged broad participation. "Working together, we will complete this historic undertaking and transform our campus," McCormick said. "We will empower Rutgers undergraduates to take advantage of the distinctive educational experiences that characterize a great research university."</p>
<p>President McCormick's plan to transform undergraduate education in New Brunswick/Piscataway includes:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Establishment of the School of Arts and Sciences, which will bring together all arts and sciences faculty and students. All arts and sciences students in New Brunswick/Piscataway will receive their degrees from this school.</p></li>
<li><p>Unified admissions standards, general education criteria and graduation requirements for all arts and sciences students in New Brunswick/Piscataway. The Faculty of Arts and Sciences will have the authority to establish these standards.</p></li>
<li><p>More participation by arts and sciences faculty in undergraduate education, consistent with the role of faculty at peer research universities. Faculty will have greater opportunities to focus time and energy on undergraduates.</p></li>
<li><p>A campuswide undergraduate honors program. This will serve as a magnet for high-achieving students.</p></li>
<li><p>A core curriculum for undergraduates, developed by the faculty. This will encourage students to take full advantage of the wide range of academic opportunities offered at Rutgers.</p></li>
<li><p>A first-year seminar program open to all first-year students in New Brunswick/Piscataway. Highly regarded senior faculty will teach these one-credit courses, which will immediately connect first-year students to the university's rich academic and research opportunities.</p></li>
<li><p>Encouraging Rutgers students to end their undergraduate careers with a "capstone experience" - such as a senior thesis, a research project or a service learning experience.</p></li>
<li><p>Establishment of a residential college with a well-defined mission. The Douglass Residential College, to be located on the Douglass campus, will provide special academic and co-curricular programs for women students who live in the residential college. Its programs will be open to students across the New Brunswick/Piscataway campus, regardless of where they choose to live.</p></li>
<li><p>Acceleration of plans to expand the student center on the Livingston campus - a top priority of Livingston students. McCormick has announced a 2007 groundbreaking for the project.</p></li>
<li><p>Appointment of distinguished scientist Joan W. Bennett to join the Rutgers faculty and serve as an associate vice president in academic affairs responsible for advancing the entry of women students in the science, technology, engineering and math professions; mentoring and helping advance women students and faculty in these areas; and developing new programs for attracting and retaining women in these professions. Bennett, a member of the National Academy of Sciences and former president of the American Society for Microbiology, is known internationally for her work promoting women entering these fields.</p></li>
<li><p>Equal access to academic programs and services for undergraduates no matter where they live.</p></li>
<li><p>Improved student services throughout New Brunswick/Piscataway. Deans, staff, facilities and other resources at each residential campus will maximize quality and convenience.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>To accomplish the transformation of undergraduate education, the university will marshal existing resources and will make many of these changes a priority in the university's next capital campaign, McCormick said.</p>
<p>McCormick and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs Philip Furmanski created the Task Force on Undergraduate Education in April 2004 to review learning and academic life in New Brunswick/Piscataway. After the task force released its 178-page report in July 2005, students, faculty, staff and alumni discussed its recommendations in depth at nearly 40 hearings, forums and meetings organized by university groups. McCormick, Furmanski and members of the board of governors attended these meetings.</p>
<p>Established in 1766, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, is America's eighth oldest institution of higher learning and one of the nation's premier public research universities. Serving more than 50,000 students on campuses in Camden, Newark and New Brunswick/Piscataway, Rutgers offers more than 280 bachelor's, master's, doctoral and professional degree programs.</p>
<p>Just because an institution has been around for a long time, does not mean it is a "premier public research university". It is like saying Asbury park has always been "the jewel of the Jersey Shore". It changed, drastically. Some say it is turning around, but read the crime blotter. Maybe Rutgers will "rise again", (I hope so) but one must admit and work on one's shortcomings before problems, which they obviously have, can be addressed. When sentiment gets in the way, talk is the only thing going on, while things deteriorate.</p>