Rutgers? I don't think so

Parents Forum
81

<p>*McCormick should, however, set the athletic program straight - and frankly, move the school down to a league that actually cares about academics - like the Patriot League. *</p>

<p>How many State Universities are currently in the Patriot League? </p>

<p>RU is taking players that University of Miami rejects, on the basis of both conduct and academics</p>

<p>Rutgers has a mission to provide a top-notch education to New Jersey residents. The University of Miami is a private school in Florida. I'm not sure what you mean by player*S*, but the student you are referring to was a New Jersey resident who met all qualifications to play college football. He is no longer affiliated with Rutgers.</p>

<p>I know of no school that elevates its academics when it follows bandit athletic practices. It doesn't work.</p>

<p>Michigan is currently on Probation from the NCAA for violations in basketball recruiting. Maryland was hit with sanctions in 2003. UCal-Berkeley was given probation for football violations in 2002. Notre Dame was last hit by the NCAA in 1999. Shall we bring up the Duke Lacrosse scandal? </p>

<p>There are no "bandit practices" going on at Rutgers. The Rutgers football team has the fourth highest graduation rate in the nation. Only Navy, Stanford, and Duke rank higher. Yes, Rutgers football has the highest graduation rate of any public school in Division I. They did not get that way by recruiting bandits and thugs. They earned that by recruiting scholar-athletes, and are now enjoying the fruits of recruiting intelligent young men to bring honor and pride to the people of New Jersey.</p>

82

<p>You are right about the state and wrong about athletics.</p>

<p>It is largely the state's fault that RU is not held in the same esteem as some other top state universities. Our elected officials are doing a shameful job of supporting higher education in NJ. </p>

<p>McCormick has a strong vision and is infinitely better than the last president. But he needs the resources (i.e., state funding) to really make things happen. Having been the president at U of Washington and the Provost at UNC-Chapel Hill, two of the top state schools in the country, he understands what goes into building a winner. </p>

<p>As for sports, jerseypride makes some very good points. </p>

<p>Football has improved dramatically, and is well-positioned for future success. Like it or not, big-time football gets people EXCITED: it helps create pride at a University. Having also attending the University of Michigan (for law school), I can assure you that athletics and academics are NOT mutually exclusive, and that student pride is bolstered by having major sporting events that BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER. This is good for the university and helps it to better market itself, which attracts more prospective students, which leads to higher admissions standards...</p>

<p>Further, as jerseypride pointed out, the RU football program takes academics very seriously. The student you mentioned, though given a change, was ultimately kicked out of the program and is now attending another school.</p>

83

<p>Weis got some high-profile players, to be sure. However, Rutgers' recruiting has never been better.</p>

<p>In the last three years, some of the very best players in NJ - Jeremy Zuttah, Chenry Lewis, Kordell Young, Shamar Graves, Kenny Britt, Ryan D'Imperio, Wayne Thomas, Al-Mahid Hutchins, etc. - have chosen Rutgers despite a plethora of other options. </p>

<p>Further, Rutgers has also attracted some of the best players in New York State, in Ray Rice (a freshman all-american last year) and Courtney Greene (also a freshman all-american last year), and Brian Leonard - a two-time all-american and one of the most respected players in all of college football. </p>

<p>Rutgers has also been successful in recruiting outstanding players from Florida, PA, and other states. </p>

<p>As for RU having "thugs" - what evidence even suggests this? </p>

<p>Keep in mind that a few years ago, RU was arguably the worst D1-A football program in the entire country. Now RU is a winning team and is expected by most experts become even better. Hard work by Coach Schiano and staff has put the infrastructure and building blocks in place for long-term success.</p>

84

<p>*However, she has been to the campus informally a couple times (drove through once and attended a seminar for high school students interested in engineering) and refuses to consider it for college. Her impression is that it's all parking lots and too spread out to feel like a campus. We've never taken a formal tour, but if I could get her to go back what should we look at? She's interested in science and engineering, is into cultural things like opera and theatre, likes the idea of being close to things. *</p>

<p>SLMom,</p>

<p>Is your daughter leaning more towards Science or Engineering? If the sciences, do a little investigation of Cook. It's known as the "Ag School" but has a heavy science concentration as well as Environmental Engineering. It's very self contained, and a student can fill all of her requirements within the beautiful campus. My wife was a graduate of Cook, and still keeps in touch with her classmates and advisors. It's a very close-knit campus, and may be the alternative your daughter is looking for.</p>

85

<p>Your daughter is right about one thing: there are too many parking lots and some parts of the campuses do need to be improved. The good news is that those imrovements are being planned and some are underway. President McCormick strongly desires a more beautiful campus and is certainly not ignoring the issue. The College Ave. Design Competition and other initiatives are likely to significantly improve the RU campus. See this link for more information:
<a href="http://www.president.rutgers.edu/campuscommunity.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.president.rutgers.edu/campuscommunity.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What to look at:</p>

<p>College Avenue, the main/traditional campus, and the Cook/Douglas area are rather nice. I would certainly look at those. College Ave. has numerous historic buildings, and attractive areas like Vorhees Mall and Old Queens. Visit in the fall when these areas are especially nice. </p>

<p>The area around the "passion puddle" and the Woodlawn Mansion over on Douglas are very nice, too. (Livingston is the unattractive part of campus, with all the parking lots, and needs improvement. However, it is possible to attend RU and spend very little time there.) </p>

<p>Busch campus is the home of most of RU's science/engineering programs and research. It isn't gorgeous, but it's not bad. If your daughter studies science, she would likely spend a lot of time there. However, she would not have to live here if she wanted the more vibrant/collegiate atmosphere of College Ave. </p>

<p>How to market RU to her:</p>

<p>1) Starting next year, students can choose ANY campus to live on, so your daughter would be able wherever she wanted. That is a huge improvement over the way things were. If your daughter wants a real collegiate feel - rather than parking lots - she can get that on College Ave, which is less sterile than Busch/Livingston. </p>

<p>2) As for cultural things. New Brunswick has three professional theatres, right in the heart of the city. The Zimmerli Museam is one of the better college art museums, and NYC is only an easy 45 minute train ride away. Also - Mason Gross, RU's outstanding arts school, has art galleries and hosts numerous performances every year. Further, there are over 50 restaurants - from Indian, to Vietnamese, to Ethiopian - in New Brunswick all within walking distance of both the College Ave. and Douglas campuses. Simply put, there is a lot to do in the much-improved city of New Brunswick. </p>

<p>3) Excellence in the sciences and engineering. Despite financial problems, RU has really invested heavily in these. Recently, RU completed an 80,000 square foot Biomedical Engineering Building, and a 60,000 square foot genetics building - both on Busch Campus. The quality of research at RU is very high, so someone interested in the sciences should seriously consider it for that reason. Further, Joan Bennett, a highly respected National Academy of Sciences member, has joined RU and will be working to promote women in the sciences. </p>

<p>Here is her bio:</p>

<p>Dr. Bennett served as President of American Society of Microbiology and President of the Society for Industrial Mycology where she worked to ensure that qualified women were appointed to committees, editorships and other leadership positions. In 2005 Dr. Bennett was elected to the National Academy of Science where she is continuing to work to promote issues relative to women in science. At Rutgers Dr. Bennett serves as Associate Vice President and Head of the Office to Advance Women in Science. Her role is to provide leadership in a Rutgers wide effort to promote the entry and progression of women in science, technology, math, and engineering fields</p>

<p>Finally, as jersey pride said, check out Cook. </p>

<p>4) The undergraduate reforms, which take effect starting in fall 2007, will significantly improve undergrad education. You can read about them here:
<a href="http://ur.rutgers.edu/transform_ru/pdf/overview.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ur.rutgers.edu/transform_ru/pdf/overview.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>5) There is a tangible difference in student pride over the last year or so. Part of this is from the increasing success of the football program. The aforementioned reforms will further increase unity/pride in RU. Further, check out the following for more info on what makes RU a strong school:
<a href="http://for.rutgers.edu/pride.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://for.rutgers.edu/pride.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

86

<p>"Yes, I see the streets are paved with bricks now. I assure you I am not clueluess."</p>

<p>I hope you are kidding...</p>

<p>George Street got concrete pavers and brick sidewalks in the 1970s. Did you last look at it in the 60s?? </p>

<p>They are scheduled to be replaced - after the Rt. 18 project - with more durable asphalt and concrete.</p>

87

<p>I know it is a little late in the discussion and those ahead of me have done an excellent job on the technical aspects of Rutgers. Consequently, though I hate talking about myself, I will risk a more personal approach.</p>

<p>I live in East Brunswick and have always wanted to go to Rutgers. I could have gone to just about any college; I even got phone calls from admissions officers at Princeton in March, months after applications were due, asking me when I would send mine in. Nevertheless, I would not go to any school but Rutgers.</p>

<p>I am now a Junior majoring in Cell Biology and Neuroscience and will soon begin preparation for my honors thesis, viz. the role of dishevelled assosiated proteins in xenopus pattern formations and their analogs in tumorigenisis. Through the honors program at Rutgers College, I have found some of the brightest people I have ever met. Nevertheless, some of the wisest people I know count themselves among the "ordinary" students. Furthermore, I have had the honor of studying under some very accomplished professors; the CBN department itself is headed by Dr. Wise Young, arguably the most well known researcher in spinal chord injuries today. I have never had a class taught by a TA. In fact, most of my classes have had two or more professors teaching the same section. Last year, I even had a class which brought in 10 different lecturers talking about the varying parts of developmental biology in which they specialized.</p>

<p>As far tuition is concerned, I will be receiving almost $10,000 in grants and scholarships for the Fall semester, so that will not be a problem. Of that, about $9300 will be from Rutgers itself and about $500 from New Jersey. None of that is from outside sources or loans.</p>

<p>Certainly there are problems with Rutgers which need to be fixed. However, to think that Rutgers is alone in this is foolish; I know some UCLA alumni who are not too happy with significant state funding cuts there. Rutgers is a very unique school which is not for everyone. However, it is a very good school; to me it is the best.</p>

88

<p>Lawmatt78</p>

<p>Thanks for all your information. Rutgers is such a huge place I get lost just trying to navigate the website, nevertheless the campus. You've given us some good starting places. Thankyou.</p>

89

<p>"I have never had a class taught by a TA. In fact, most of my classes have had two or more professors teaching the same section. Last year, I even had a class which brought in 10 different lecturers talking about the varying parts of developmental biology in which they specialized"</p>

<p>I have heard wonderful things about the pharmacy school and honors programs. You seem to be an exceptional student and I know many very bright students choose to attend RU. I wonder what the experience is like for a B/B+ 1200 (old sat) freshman/soph. student. My guess is that at RU, like most large research based universities, their experience is very different.</p>

90

<p>Rutgers, like any college - especially large ones - is what you make of it. </p>

<p>There are tremendous opportunities - but you have to take advantage of them. If you don't seek out good professors, or find out what interests you, you are not going to have a great experience - anywhere. </p>

<p>I think it's very likely that a higher % of undergrads will have a better experience after the upcoming reorganization. Things like first-year seminars with top faculty will make students feel more connected to the school. Student services have been a focus for improvement as well. </p>

<p>As for me - I was not in the honors program or anything like that. (I was a mediocre high school student, who got in on a high SAT). However, like Ack, I had a positive experience at RU. That vast majority of my classes - I doubled majored in philsophy and pychology - were taught by professors, not TAs, and the philosophy faculty is one of the 3-4 best on the planet. The English, History, Math, and Physics departments are all considered to be in the top 20 nationally. </p>

<p>So the faculty is there. If the damn state ever gets behind RU, we can reduce the student-faculty ratio even more and really get students more engaged. But the current situation is not terrible by any means. </p>

<p>Further, If a student has any interest in research, there are great opportunities to participate in the labs on top-notch scientists like the aforementioned Wise Young. </p>

<p>As for the SAT - the average SAT for Rutgers College (the main undergrad college) students is now around 1260 or so. After the colleges merge, and the stigma of attending Livingston is gone, I expect the overall SAT average will creep closer towards that level over the next several years. That would put RU pretty close to the best public universities.</p>

91

<p>It is difficult to argue about sports on this board because of its intellectual inclination. This is a good thing, but it makes it tough for some to follow my assertions because I assume some knowledge of sports. My fault. The reference to Miami being a public university is irrelevant. Those who follow college football even in the slightest are well aware that Miami's program (one of the best in the nation) is infamous for its acceptance and countenance of bandit players. It has an incredibly bad reputation as a bandit athletic school - probably deserved. Rutgers has accepted a few of Miami's rejects (which is in and of itself astounding since Miami has ignored criminal records, academic fraud, etc. to get players). Sleep with the likes of a Miami and you get dirty. </p>

<p>And I am really not persuaded by a mere recitation of graduation statistics (although some credit should go to the coach, I concede). What really matters is how many of those players are getting degrees in subjects that exist for the sports program, such as "Family Life", " Recreation" and PE. Rutgers is taking players with 800 or so SAT's. Let's see - 40 hours a week on football - 800 SAT's - think they really are going to get a meaningful education? A regular student not playing football having to play this kind of academic catch-up would have work day and night to keep up. Look, don't take this as singling out Rutgers - they are doing what a whole host of other Div. 1 schools are doing - but it they want to regain their glory days academically, this is no way to go about it. The data reflects this fact -
I find it interesting that the leader of the Rutgers 1000 (a former athlete himself) who was dedicated to bringing up the academic quality of the school got death threats. I guess Rutgers just has to have its mediocre and money losing football and basketball (Rutgers did it itself no favor three or four years ago when it hired a basketball coach it had to fire because he made the players practice naked as punishment - you can claim it is just bad luck but this kind of thing doesn't happen at Duke, it doesn't happen at Stanford, and it doesn't happen at the Ivies).</p>

92

<p>Duke--interesting choice for athletic purity. And Harvard recently had some athletic problems and supensions including the QB. The RU 1000 was an hysterical anti-sports group. Whether a relative handful of students major in PE or Sociology, I just don't care all that much. They contribute to the university life more than most of your common students and many work hard both on the field and in their classes.
I have a former D-1 major program former starting linebacker working for me as a trainee and he's a bright and eager kid who managed over a 3.0 in psychology and econ while playing and graduating. I have more respect for him than some kid who went on his parents dime and did nothing much for the school expect to take up space.</p>

93

<p>you wrote:
It is difficult to argue about sports on this board because of its intellectual inclination.</p>

<p>I'm curious why you originally brought up football in your initial post on this thread? And yet, when we try to redirect the sports discussion back to academics you scoffed at the "mere recitation of graduation statistics"</p>

<p>Regarding your alleged Rutgers majors "Family Life", " Recreation" and PE, can you please provide me the names of current and former Rutgers football players that majored in these subjects? Just because you say it does not make it true.</p>

<p>Also, you said "Rutgers has accepted a few of Miami's rejects". Please provide the names of these player*S*. The only two football players that chose Rutgers over Miami are Nathaniel Robinson and Jeremy Zuttah. Mr. Robinson, as discussed above, is currently at the University of Akron. Mr. Zuttah had a 1260 SAT, is currently a Junior and member of the Big East All-Academic team, which recognizes letter-winners that have acheived a 3.0 cumulative GPA. I'm not sure why you consider him a "Miami reject", but it is student-athletes of Mr. Zuttah's caliber which have allowed Rutgers to reach its lofty goals in the classroom and on the field, not the coach or imaginary majors.</p>

<p>What do you mean when you call schools "Tier One, Tier Two, etc" Which Tier is Rutgers?</p>

94

<p>Your post is replete with non sequiturs and specious allegations. </p>

<p>Your argument is essentially this:
1) Miami football has a bad reputation for ethics and academics
2) Rutgers admitted a player who did not qualify for Miami.
3) Therefore, Rutgers is similar to Miami in terms of ethics and academics.</p>

<p>You, sir/ma'am/whatever, are no logician. </p>

<p>Further, you cite majors that simply do not exist at RU. Lest you accuse me of quibbling with names, I can assure that there is nothing even resembling what you named. </p>

<p>And while you correctly point out that one with an 800 SAT would probably have a hard time managing football and classwork, keep in mind the following:
1) College football players have mandatory study hours, unlike regular students.
2) They also have advisors who make sure they stay on track. Many of them learn to be very efficient with time management and may actually study more than regular students - who often sit around doing nothing most evenings - despite having less time to do so.
3) They often take several summer classes, thereby spreading out their workload over time. </p>

<p>Also, it is unhelpful to compare RU - or any large public school - to the Ivies or Stanford. Those are private schools with entirely different missions. RU does not need to engage in Ivy mimicry to attain success. The more appropriate role models for state universities are Michigan, Berkeley, UVA, etc. And note: each of those has a big-time athletic program.</p>

<p>Finally - if you support RU 1000 - a ridiculous organization - you probably want RU to return to the Patriot League. It won't happen. RU is a large state school; that is not what the Patriot league consists of. Here is a list of its members and their student enrollments. As anyone can see, these schools are very different from RU - or any state university, for that matter. With the exception of Navy/Army, they are all private. Further, none of them have an enrollment that even approaches half of RU-New Brunswick's. It would be entirely unfair to those schools for RU - with its greater resources - to play them. And with RU vastly improved in football, it would easily defeat most of those schools year in and year out. So it would benefit nobody for RU to be part of that league. </p>

<p>American University Washington, D.C. 5,200<br>
Bucknell University * Lewisburg, Pa. 3,350<br>
Colgate University * Hamilton, N.Y. 2,800<br>
College of the Holy Cross * Worcester, Mass. 2,700<br>
Lafayette College * Easton, Pa. 2,300<br>
Lehigh University * Bethlehem, Pa. 4,700<br>
U.S. Military Academy West Point, N.Y. 4,000<br>
U.S. Naval Academy Annapolis, MD. 4,000</p>

<p>Not only that, but it is foolish to think RU's academic reputation depends on who its football opponents are. Most major football conferences have schools of widely varying academic quality. And that doesn't hurt the best schools in each conference. U of Texas - a great school - does not lose respect because it happens to play against Oklahoma State, a pretty mediocre school, for example.</p>

95

<p>CALM, Breath, CALM.</p>

96

<p>Well, since it seems this forum is well moderated, and posts have been deleted, I respectfully request that Mam1959's posts on this thread be deleted for being factually incorrect, off topic, and an attack on Rutgers.</p>

<p>I'm not sure what bringing football into this conversation accomplishes, since this isn't the proper forum for it. There are plenty of sites such as scarletnation.com devoted to the Rutgers football program, where he can debate his opinions with like minded individuals.</p>

<p>That being said, there are several inaccuracies in his posts that are meant to deceive a person looking to find information about Rutgers from this forum. Rutgers does not run a "bandit" football program. As pointed out before, Rutgers was the fourth highest school in the NCAA's Academic Progress Rate, and the highest ranked public university. Rutgers prides itself on this academic focus. To date, there has not been a single player lost to academics since Head Coach Greg Schiano took over the program in December 2000. </p>

<p>As mentioned previously, Rutgers DOES NOT offer majors in the subjects Mam1959 mentioned. Unlike schools such as Michigan and Duke, Rutgers does NOT offer a degree in "General Studies" or "Liberal Arts". Rutgers athletes are required to meet the same criteria as non-athlete students in order to graduate.</p>

<p>Mam1959 also discusses Rutgers "traditional" opponents of 50-60 years ago. This illustrates an ignorance of the evolution of Rutgers mission in its 240 year history. Until 1956, Rutgers was a private men's college with a total enrollment of approximately 5,000. This demographic made it similiar to the Patriot and Ivy League schools with which it participated athletically. In 1956, it became The State University of New Jersey, and began a transformation which continues today. The yardsticks for measuring Rutgers progress has changed from Lafayette, Colgate, and Princeton to Cal-Berkeley, Michigan, and Virginia. </p>

<p>To say Rutgers should return to its mission as a private men's college affiliated with the Dutch Reformed Church frankly is insulting to me as an alumnus, New Jersey taxpayer, and financial contributor to both the Academic and Athletic Foundations. Once again, I respectfully ask that Mam1959's off topic posts be deleted from this thread, so parents can receive useful information in making the most important decision in their childrens' lives.</p>

97

<p>"mam, I agree with you on the shame of allowing thugs into Rutgers to beef up the football program. barrons is right that they played well & made it to a bowl game. But Charlie Weis is a Jersey guy who will recruit all the true student-athletes to Notre Dame. He's already begun to make inroads here. I don't see much hope for the RU football program either. Some of the top h.s. players in the country are from NJ, yet they are not staying in-state."</p>

<p>I have some friends on the Rutgers football team, can you please tell me who these thugs are?</p>

98

<p>McCormick should, however, set the athletic program straight - and frankly, move the school down to a league that actually cares about academics - like the Patriot League.</p>

<p>How many State Universities are currently in the Patriot League?</p>

<p>RU is taking players that University of Miami rejects, on the basis of both conduct and academics</p>

<p>Rutgers has a mission to provide a top-notch education to New Jersey residents. The University of Miami is a private school in Florida. I'm not sure what you mean by playerS, but the student you are referring to was a New Jersey resident who met all qualifications to play college football. He is no longer affiliated with Rutgers.</p>

<p>"I know of no school that elevates its academics when it follows bandit athletic practices. It doesn't work.</p>

<p>Michigan is currently on Probation from the NCAA for violations in basketball recruiting. Maryland was hit with sanctions in 2003. UCal-Berkeley was given probation for football violations in 2002. Notre Dame was last hit by the NCAA in 1999. Shall we bring up the Duke Lacrosse scandal?</p>

<p>There are no "bandit practices" going on at Rutgers. The Rutgers football team has the fourth highest graduation rate in the nation. Only Navy, Stanford, and Duke rank higher. Yes, Rutgers football has the highest graduation rate of any public school in Division I. They did not get that way by recruiting bandits and thugs. They earned that by recruiting scholar-athletes, and are now enjoying the fruits of recruiting intelligent young men to bring honor and pride to the people of New Jersey."</p>

<p>Thank god someone actually has the truth.</p>

99

<p>Dear Folks,
Thanks to lawmatt78 and others who have attended Rutgers for their imput into this forum. I value the opinion of those who have actually been in the situation to those of us who have only anecdotal evidence on which to base our judgements. Having said that, I am a parent who, as of yet, falls into the anecdotal catagory. In a few months, however, I will be able to speak from personal experience as my son will be starting Rutgers this Fall. </p>

<p>So far I have been very satisfied with the way the University has conducted itself towards him. Starting in May with an amazingly welcoming orientation, up until this week with a letter from the Math department congratulating my son on his AP calculus score and an invitation to apply for honors math courses, my son has not been made to feel like a "number", but rather an individual.</p>

<p>My feeling about Rutgers is this: I think it suffers from the "girl next door" syndrome. It is in-state, large, not very pretty (who designed Busch campus anyway?) not so terribly hard to get into, and relatively affordable. So where's the challenge, where's the bragging rights? Seen from the eyes of a 17 year old, who thinks that college is the absolutely transforming event of a lifetime, where is the excitement?</p>

<p>Seen from the eyes of a middle aged parent with presumably more perspective who is looking for a solid education for their child: great faculty, great opportunities, won't break the bank, eminently do-able, if not exotic.</p>

100

<p>Very well said, Dad23!</p>

<p>Our son will be transferring in to Rutgers (Mason Gross School of the Arts) in a few weeks. Hope BOTH our sons find what they want and need at Rutgers. I am pretty optimistic that they will. </p>

<p>We also have been quite pleased with the whole 'experience' so far. It seems that although Rutgers IS a huge place, they rely on the 'school' within the University to provide the support, guidance to the student. Mason Gross has been very inviting and encouraging through the whole admission and accepted student thing.</p>

<p>Even the university wide offices (admissions, financial aid, student accounts) have been surprisingly responsive and effective in resolving questions/problems. I gotten a few 'please hold' situations via phone but the real live person who does eventually come on the line has invariably been concerned and helpful. Hope the actual college experience goes as well!</p>