<p>I am a rising Jr. @ a target university interseted in getting into BB S+T next summer. This summer I am interning for a large wall street firm doing prime brokerage. After working here for about two months I have discovered that I would like to pursue a more active career in trading. If someone with prior experience as a S+T intern could shed some light on these questions I would greatly appreciate it. Any and all advice is appreciated.</p>
<p>-What is the average day like as an ST intern?
-How difficult is it to get internships in ST?
-Would an internship in prime brokerage (sophomore summer) look favorably for ST positions?
-Chances of receiving a full time position upon graduation?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<ol>
<li><p>As an intern in S&T you are in an interesting position. You are not licensed, so you can’t talk with clients and the firm isn’t going to give you capital, so you obviously can’t trade. As a result, most of your time is spent shadowing salespeople and/or traders. You might have some small projects/research to do for the desk, but honestly its a lot of watching and asking good questions.</p></li>
<li><p>It is pretty difficult to get an internship, I think my firm hired 10 out of 2-300. Especially now, it was a pretty tough year.</p></li>
<li><p>I would think so. I think you can definitely leverage the internship, just know how it relates and why you’d prefer to do S&T.</p></li>
<li><p>Depends on how well you do and whether the desks like you and whether the market is tanking haha. It really varies. Last year i think SA had anywhere from 15-45% offer rate. This year should be higher, but a lot of people are bearish about the recovery so who knows. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>If you have any other questions, perhaps more specific about FI or Equities, or individual products and how things work feel free to ask.</p>
<p>I’ve realized that it’s next to impossible to get a BB IBD job if you come from a non-target.</p>
<p>But what about S&T? Does a stellar resume, albiet from a non-target give you a shot at a BB S&T position?</p>
<p>c-revs, </p>
<p>my question to you is, do you need to any programming or advanced computer technology to become a trader?</p>
<p>i am interested, but i dont know much about computers. I am going to wharton in the fall as an undergraduate and plan to concentrate in statistics and finance. But will this be enough? How quantitative do you need to be and if i cant fit any cis classes and such into my schedule, will i be at a disadvantage come recruiting time??</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>It’s pretty damn tough still. My class for example is Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, ND, Gtown, MIT… you get the picture. Out of all S&T (FI & Equity), maybe 1-2 non-targets (out of 20). </p>
<p>You do not need any form of advanced programming at a BB. If products are complicated like options (1st gen exotics, 2nd gen) the quants build all the models for you. It can be helpful to know vba or a C (#) from what I’ve seen to consolidate data and build dynamic charting environments etc, but the vba is easy to pick up. It is by no means necessary to come in with advanced programming knowledge, though it may be helpful.</p>
<p>thanks c-revs,</p>
<p>could answer this question…</p>
<p>why did you choose s+t over IBD. both seems interesting, and honestly i have no idea which route to take. </p>
<p>i just dont want to have s+t as my goal, take a bunch of math and quantitative classes, and then have my gpa be low compared to what it could be if i just concentrated on getting into IBD.</p>
<p>do you think when recruiters come for IBD, do they look favorably upon a quantitative course load, or do they not care at all because IBD doesnt really involve complicated calculations…</p>
<p>I have had the opportunity to work in both S&T and IBD, but I did know before working in IBD that what I really wanted was to be on the trading floor. Its a very different dynamic, the trading floor is a lot more intense. You don’t have an hour to do analysis on every trade, prices are only good for anywhere from a few seconds to 15 or so minutes. It’s a lot more of making quick decisions with limited information. </p>
<p>I did not like banking particularly because of the long hours filled with tons of downtime. Don’t get me wrong, S&T has times when nothing happens, but its a different feel. It can be stressful, but also tons of fun. I also like how you can directly see your addition to the group via PNL every day, its nice to see what you did right and wrong, and how you handle pressure.</p>
<p>As far as quantitative classes go, IBD won’t hold it against you imo, as long as you keep your GPA fairly high. They do like to see quantitative skills, if you can handle math classes, you can certainly handle the numerical analysis involved in IBD.</p>
<p>okay thanks c-revs,</p>
<p>i also had a couple more questions if you dont mind…</p>
<p>what are the exit opportunities to being a trader?
are they better, worse, the same, or different than those pertaining to investment bankers? please elaborate.</p>
<p>i dont know which school you went to, but what kind of curriculum do you think will be quantitative enough for a trader especially during recruitment. keep in mind, i wont be able to actually major in an engineering science or math. i do however plan to concentrate in finance and stats (and with just two extra math classes i would also obtain a math minor). im going to wharton undergrad btw. i just dont want my gpa to take an unnecessary hit, if trading is something im going to end up not wanting to do. does that make sense?</p>
<p>thankss</p>
<p>The one drawback about being a trader is that you don’t have much of a skillset to do anything other than trading. Most traders stick to BB or go into a HF as a trader. Some may go for an MBA if they intend on changing careers. In that sense, exit ops are limited… but if you like trading then why would you want to do anything else. If it fits your personality, it can be a very fun… stressful and frustrating at times… but fun and interesting career. </p>
<p>This is in stark contrast to banking, in which a majority of people do it primarily for the exit ops. Banking is generally a means to an end; to get to VC, PE, HF, etc. That’s not to say that people in S&T don’t plan on leaving and going for HF etc, but usually they stick around and stick in trading.</p>
<p>You can probably figure out from my post history anyway, so I might as well just say. I go to Georgetown, study Finance & Math, with some Economics and Comp sci thrown in the mix. If you are doing Stat that’s plenty to show your numerical capability. Don’t forget that a lot of the products are not very heavy statistics or mathematics… there are english, management, etc. majors too who don’t have any mathematical background. </p>
<p>My suggestion is to take the classes that you are interested in and think you will do well. If you are trying to take a class just for trading… its probably silly because most of it is completely useless/impractical in the real world as a Trader. Really, don’t do it just for it to look good, its probably not a good idea unless you are a complete beast. Wharton is def recruited well. Once you get the interview, its all about that pretty much, especially in S&T.</p>