Hi guys,
So, my friend got into Georgetown (because the guidance counselor pretty much forced him to apply) and Sacramento State so far. He insists on going to Sacramento State over Georgetown because “California is home” to him (Money is not an issue-he is on full scholarship). How should I deal with this and convince him to go to Georgetown? He is a Biology major by the way.
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How should I deal with this
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You need to mind your own business…that’s how you deal with this.
This has nothing to do with you. It affects you in no way. You may not be privy to some personal reasons as to why he needs/wants to stay close to home. Some students have anxiety or depression issues, so going “far away” is truly too traumatic for them. Such students aren’t likely sharing that info with friends or classmates.
Obviously, I have no idea what is going on in this young person’s head, but neither do you. There could be a hundred different reasons why his is just saying, “California is home” when he has the option of Gtown over Sac State. That is likely something someone says when there is something else going on, that the person doesn’t want to share.
You say that he’s on full scholarship, so he’s low income. If so, then likely he’s considering that being far away means no trips home during the school year…and likely that his family could never visit him, help him with move-in, or even come to his graduation. “full scholarship” doesn’t mean that all costs are really covered.
You’ve likely already made an argument or two about Gtown’s rep and opportunities and he’s not biting.
focus on your own college path.
Is that really the attitude you’re giving your friend? You think he’s “doomed” if he doesn’t make the choice you would so you’re pressuring him to attend a school he never wanted to apply to in the first place? Please don’t. Mom2CK is right. You have no idea what’s going on with him. Not all kids are interested in going away to college or can afford the commute to an OOS school, even if all the other costs are covered. Maybe his financial aid package included loans and he doesn’t want to be in debt. Or maybe the “full scholarship” is for tuition only and he can’t afford the room & board costs. Maybe he wants to work in the area where you currently live and would like to get local internships that may lead to a job later. There are many reasons people make the choices they do. College admissions is stressful enough. Your friend doesn’t need you to add to his; he needs your support.
Stop being a snob and support your friend.
I disagree. If OP’s friend is first gen or immigrant (not from a rankings-obsessed country), s/he may have NO idea what the difference is between Georgetown and Sacramento State.
Let’s get real, the differences in support, opportunities, level of classes, learning "comfort, peer quality, networking, even graduation rate, are worlds apart. It’s not like Op’s friend is hesitating between a mid-tier UC and Georgetown, let alone UCB and Georgetown.
Op’s friend may have reasons but if OP is very low income, the biggest problem would be that s/he’d stop providing for his/her family who may want him/her to keep working. However, a Georgetown degree is an investment that’d help the family - if only because OP would be much more likely to graduate ontime and have a higher-paying job, and second, because this would have a “trailblazing” effect on the family/community. Additionally, OP’s friend could send his/her earnings (job/work study) back to the family if necessary, even if it’d be less than what a 20hour job would be (for instance).
Georgetown may even be cheaper since OP is on full financial aid and G’Town’s pretty generous in that regard.
SO, in my opinion, OP is being a good friend here.
I agree with what @mom2collegekids said, especially the part about the “anxiety or depression issues”. Work colleague of mine Nephew, got a full ride Scholarship to Cornell University and started the program. Within a month or two of starting his first Semester at Cornell, he developed serious physiological/mental problems and the parents had to fly in from outside of the US to get him back to their country. This was a brilliant student, from one of the top Private Schools where he grew up. He never did return to Cornell and completed his University Degree at the Flagship University in his Country.
So, yes, the friend might not be privy to all the contributing factors that went into the decision to attend Sacramento State University. Study Biology at California State University, Sacramento might not be a negative, especially if the friend wants to eventually apply to Med School. In fact, it might be a overall net positive.
Isn’t it the GC’s job – s/he is a professional in this area and has far more data and expertise than you do – to ensure your friend has comprehensive information, upon which to base a wise, long-term decision? Once your friend has assimilated the information and appreciates its short- and long-term implications, the decision is his. Incidentally, depending on his goals and his needs, it may be entirely reasonable to attend the local CSU (for example, one need not matriculate at a college that’s a continent away from home and that has “elite level pressure” if one wishes to be a public school teacher). Perhaps you should support your friend and not try to make HIS decision for him?
^ California med schools are incredibly selective and frown on CSUs (want UCs). Biology at a CSU isn’t the best choice unless one wants to teach biology. It can lead to graduate school (as is needed for biology majors) but the environment is not conducive to further study.
Sacramento State’s students have scores in the low 400s to low 500s. They’re barely college ready and most need remedial classes. Only 8% graduate in 4 years, which, even by CSU standards, is abysmal.
A student who can get into Georgetown isn’t at the proper school at Sac State - if OP’s friend wanted to stay in California, there were at least a dozen colleges that were better suited to his/her level of achievement and potential.
A kid - even an academically weaker kid for the G’Town pool - who attends Georgetown has incredibly better odds of graduating, not to mention graduating with valuable connections and networking access, is sure to receive more support, etc. Even health resources and follow-through are better at Georgetown (if you’re thinking mental illness).
Psata: probably that cultural shock + undiagnosed problems were at work in your example.
The study presented here is useful:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1748559-better-off-being-worst-student-at-a-four-year-college-than-going-to-a-community-college.html
In addition, for lower-income/first gen kids, choosing the “most prestigious” school actually yields a lot of benefits (not really to kids who choose the state flagship over the “most prestigious” school) - lower-income/ first gen kids are those who should be encouraged to attend as they would benefit the most, but often don’t because they’re afraid/it’s far/inertia/they don’t see the difference. The consequences for social mobility are not good, and ultimately for the economic benefit of the entire family.
As everyone else has said, you shouldn’t be making the decision for your friend. Choosing a college is very personal and highly depends on the individual’s goals and family situation. You’re saying Georgetown because you’re basing off of prestige. That’s YOU. Maybe your friend doesn’t feel that way. Maybe he loves Sacramento State and loves the campus/vibe/proximity to home.
Turn the table around. How would you feel if your friend didn’t support your college choice and urged you to choose a college across the country that you didn’t even want to go to? There are a lot of personal factors that play into a college decision and you will not be influenced by any of them. Whether he goes to GTown or Sacramento State, it doesn’t matter to you. It’s his life not yours.
Side note, why exactly is he doomed? So it’s a state school but it’s not the end of the world. He’s on a full scholarship you say so (you never mentioned career plans; does he want grad school) that means no debt or worry about affording grad school. Is it because you’re going to Georgetown and you want him to be with you? Either way, prestige mongering is useless and doesn’t have any play in the college world. You go with fit and affordability, end of story.
“^” was to post #5.
Where else has your friend applied?
What are the objections to G’Town?
What type of school are you attending (LAUSD-type, or Gunn-type?)
(“my friend is doomed” = overly dramatic, don’t you think)?
As a Sac State alum, your friend is hardly doomed…
I will say, I expect my friends to speak up when they think i am making a big mistake. It is perfectly acceptable for you to, constructively, ask about what went into his decision and try to correct misconceptions. After you are convinced he’s got the facts right and understands the implications of his decision - as a friend, you buy him a Sac State Hornet T-shirt or coffee mug and support him.
Okay. I’m sorry. But, I thought that it was common sense for someone to pick Georgetown.
It’s his choice. If your friend wants to go to Sac State, that’s his choice. If you’re really his friend you will support him. The fact that he didn’t really want to apply to Georgetown in the first place should speak a lot on the fact that he doesn’t want to go there.
@austinmshauri @mom2collegekids @MYOS1634 @TheDidactic I’m very sure that he does not have anxiety or any problems. He is a wide receiver for the High School Football Team. I’m not sure about the circumstances regarding his scholarship. FYI, he was born in Contra Costa County, CA and lived in El Salvador till he was 3 and then came back to CA. He is first generation. We go to a “middle” school in San Mateo County. My friend also applied to CSU Northridge, CSU East Bay, CSU Channel Islands, San Francisco State, San Jose State, UC Riverside, UC Irvine, UCLA and Stanford (ED-deferred). I talked to him again today, and he said that he doesn’t want to go to Georgetown for the sole reason that it is in the good old “District of Columbia and not in the Golden State.” I’m just kind of ticked because he is not even considering Georgetown (he hasn’t even been to DC yet) and he is making these judgement about how California is better. I just thought that he was doomed because, in life, he should not be making pre-conceived judgments like that about anything.
I just want him to be in a place that’s good for him.
What academic interests does he have? (and Stanford has REA, not ED)
@ucbalumnus He wants to be a doctor, thus he is pursuing biology. He did the early thing at Stanford.
Your friend could email Georgetown and ask them if they could fly him in to visit the college (for free).
Even if he likes California, I’m sure he’d be interested in visiting the capital for free. It’d give him an idea if he can picture himself there, or not.
It is also rather early for him to be making decisions and for you to be that concerned about his choices. After all, he has several other schools that have not yet given him their decisions (though SJSU has already given decisions and posted its thresholds on its web site, and CSUEB and CSUCI are unimpacted for the campuses and his major, so they should admit him on baseline CSU eligibility). He might prefer CSUSac over Georgetown at the moment, but one of the other schools may admit him and become his first choice. Or he may change his mind between now and 5/1.
CSUs tend not to send many to medical school, but that may be because the strongest students who could earn medical-school-acceptable GPAs and high MCAT scores are more likely to choose UCs and other more selective schools.
Why do counselors push students to apply to specific colleges? I’d fire them. This kid is probably taking what could be the spot of a person who is actually interested in Gtown. Why didn’t he/she insist on Berkeley, USC, UCLA or whatever (similar schools to Gtown in prestige), since he is so set on Cali? He shouldn’t have listened to his GC.
But to answer your question, you shouldn’t try to convince your friend of going to Georgetown. It’s his business and he shouldn’t have to share his reasons for wanting to go to Sacramento. He’s the one who will be going there, not you. His priority is clearly not academics and prestige, and I wouldn’t blame him for that if he has to work to support his family or something like that. If he doesn’t want to go to Georgetown but goes anyway, it would be a bad experience for him and a waste for Georgetown.