Safe Campus? Um, No.

<p>I agree that the law student should not have been carrying a gun. But then I don’t think anyone should be carrying a gun, except for on-duty police officers.</p>

<p>A couple of other bits about Temple vs. Villanova:</p>

<p>– The security camera tapes show the “victim” and several friends coming after the shooter
– From the standpoint of black-letter law on the self-defense defense, that shouldn’t make any difference, or not enough difference. The shooter should have tried to get away before shooting.
– The victim, in addition to being the former captain of the Villanova lacrosse team, is the grandson and nephew of important local Republican political figures. He is very plugged-in. The shooter is not, and he is screwed.</p>

<p>Agree. Clearly from a legal standpoint there is no justification for this shooting even if the Villanova guys were the aggressors. It is excessive force and won’t fly for a self-defense slaim.</p>

<p>[Number</a> of assaults at Penn more than double in 2009 | The Daily Pennsylvanian](<a href=“http://thedp.com/article/number-assaults-penn-more-double-2009]Number”>http://thedp.com/article/number-assaults-penn-more-double-2009)</p>

<p>Another interesting article. This is quite a spin and some creative data manipulation. I personally know of more Penn kids who have been victims of assaults in 2009 than the statistics will admit! </p>

<p>Again- I am NOT saying that Penn isn’t doing everything possible. My son can not fathom that the Bridge theater shooter was not caught because, according to him, every time there is the least bit of noise or disturbance (even non-violent) about 25 Penn cops appear on the scene. I just want future parents and students to be clear about the reality of this campus and neighborhood- the good and the bad.</p>

<p>That article is practically unreadable! I have no idea what anything it says means, except it implies that only four “members of the Penn community” other than police officers were “involved” (I assume as victim or as perpetrator) in reported assaults last year. That does not come close to passing the smell test, and it is awfully hard to reconcile with the VP for Security’s attributing the increase in assaults to “people known to each other – for instances students or party-goers who have had some previous contact”.</p>

<p>I note also that the “Penn reporting zone” – Baltimore to Market, 30th to 43rd – is no doubt generous compared to many college’s crabbed reporting zones, but that there are a heck of a lot of members of the Penn community who live between 43rd and 49th Streets – not often as far north as Market, but often below Baltimore, too. The last Penn student to be killed by street violence (as far as I know) was mugged in Clark Park, which would be outside the current reporting zone (by about half a block), notwithstanding that on any weekend day it is chock full of Penn students, staff, and faculty.</p>

<p>After my father’s graduation from Penn in the late 1930’s, Penn campus and nearby neighborhood was already in decline. When I was ready for college, we decided not to look at Penn because of safety issues. However, when my S was ready, Penn was deemed much improved and safer because the university had bought up a lot of the surrounding areas and security was increased.</p>

<p>When my son was there, I checked that he signed off his computer every night (we were 3 hours behind) to make sure he arrived home safely. He graduated without any incident. </p>

<p>However, when my D was in London doing a semester abroad, she was mugged in Trafalgar Square 2 blocks from her dorm around 6 PM while jogging. Her Iphone was taken, she wasn’t carrying any money and fortunately, the mugger was not armed and she was able to run away.</p>

<p>What is the elephant in the room that EVERYBODY here is afraid to even mention?</p>

<p>a. It’s all George Bush’s fault.
b. The ethnicity of the perpetrators of random crime.
c. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.
d. All of the above.</p>

<p>My son is a junior at Penn. He’s lived on campus and off. He’s never been assulted. His friends and roommates have never been assulted. He’s very aware that he’s living in Philly and acts accordingly.</p>

<p>^^ I suspect the people at the 7pm show at the Bridge theater thought they were pretty safe.</p>

<p>So did the students sitting in class at Va Tech, the lab researcher at Yale, and the soldiers at Ft. Hood. What’s your point?</p>

<p>Could somebody show me some stats that show that rural and/or suburban campuses have more or equivalent violent crime compared to big-city campuses in NY, LA, Philly, etc? I am quite aware that crime can happen anywhere but my impression is that students at a campus like Penn must be more alert, and yes, can be at a higher risk for running into criminals on or near campus. I worked there many years ago. It was NOT safe then and it’s not safe now. I don’t think I’d be running into the same deal at Dartmouth or Cornell. </p>

<p>It seems that MOWC is just trying to make sure parents and students go in with their eyes wide open. No one is saying that it’s likely a student will get hurt. It just seems that the risk may be higher. There are always crazy freak incidents everywhere…Mayberry RFD included…just how often do they happen?</p>

<p>An admissions officer at Cornell explained to a crowded room of accepted students why she felt that Cornell was an unsafe campus. Something about gorges and ice left her feeling that we should consider carefullly before sending our children there.</p>

<p>My child isn’t afraid to attend movies at the Bridge theater. Honestly, he wasn’t afraid of Cornell’s campus either.</p>

<p>When I was in college I spent a semester living in Ithaca’s African American neighborhood, the only white girl there. Admittedly it was a long time ago but never once did I feel unsafe walking home by myself.</p>

<p>It’s a shame, but a lot of the top colleges tend to be in gritty urban areas: Penn, Yale, Hopkins, Duke, WashU, Chicago, etc. Parents do need to be aware of this, and advise their kids accordingly, particularly if they grew up sheltered and don’t have “street smarts”.</p>

<p>It may also be possible that students at colleges “in the middle of nowhere” have little to do but drink, and off campus entertainment involves driving far distances, with its own set of dangers.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t think it’s ever going to be possible to do a real comparison, because of inconsistent reporting bases, campus definitions, etc. </p>

<p>But to some extent you are trying to put the rabbit into the hat when you talk about “more or equivalent violent crime”. I believe there is far more alcohol-related property destruction, vehicle accidents, and sexual assault in State College PA than on or adjacent to the Penn campus, but I don’t think that’s what you mean by “violent crime”. The thing is, there isn’t much actual “violent crime” at any of these colleges. The aggravated assault reports at Penn that almost doubled in 2009 almost doubled to under 30, and that’s for a community of over 40,000 people. The police districts that include Columbia and NYU have some of the lowest reported crime rates in the City of New York.</p>

<p>I went to college in a place considered very dangerous – New Haven. Two students I was close to in college were victims of horrific violent crime while we were in college: One was bludgeoned to death at her parents’ home in Westchester County by her ex-boyfriend, a fellow student, and the other was raped, beaten, and left for dead by a local psychopath while camping in the Blue Ridge Mountains. The possibility of street crime in New Haven was completely beside the point.</p>

<p>There’s another thread now from a student at Franklin & Marshall, reporting robberies at 1pm in the afternoon on campus. It apparently happened twice. F&M is in Lancaster, which is a fairly rural area near Amish country. If you’re not safe there, where ARE you safe?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/853490-crime-campus.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/853490-crime-campus.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Lancaster itself has a population of about 55,000 and relatively high unemployment. It has the highest proportionate Hispanic population in Pennsylvania (largely due, I believe, to seasonal agricultural work on the area farms).</p>

<p>There are lots of colleges that are basically in rural areas whose immediate surroundings are not so rural. These include places like Bates, Colgate, Hamilton, Beloit, Smith.</p>

<p>[Stanford</a> Campus Atrocity and Miscarriage of Justice
<a href=“http://stanfordwakes.spaces.live.com/blog/[/url]”>http://stanfordwakes.spaces.live.com/blog/](<a href=“http://stanfordwakes.spaces.live.com/blog/]Stanford”>http://stanfordwakes.spaces.live.com/blog/)</a></p>

<p>One should not have a roommate (Harvard undergrad murdered by roommate)
one should not go to class (VTech students mowed down by deranged fellow student)
one should not go to movies (Drexel student wounded at Bridge cinema)
one should not go to bars (man shot by third-year law student)
one should not walk or drive (beware drunk drivers)
one should not stay home (beware robbers and rapists).
one should not go to a college that is located in a city, a suburb or in a rural area.</p>

<p>Have I missed anything?</p>

<p>one should not provoke in anyway your lady computer lab classmate at Stanford?</p>