<p>The violent crimes cited by the OP are far different than the common thefts and student on student assault, which invariably are alcohol related. Alert students can reduce their exposure to theft and student-student assault by taking safety measures. Violent urban crime is much harder to predict and avoid.</p>
<p>I wish “campus safety” would encompass the danger of dying in a car accident at rural schools where everyone drives.</p>
<p>It’s extremely rare for college students to be hurt/killed in the kind of random, violent street crime that scares parents so much, even at downtown campuses in high-crime cities like Penn, GA Tech, GW, etc.</p>
<p>At schools like Alabama, where everyone has a car on campus and everyone drives to and from school, it’s exceptional for a year to go by without at least one undergrad dying in a car accident going to or from a university event. They already had one this school year. Unsafe campus? If the measure is the number of tragic deaths, then compared to Penn, yes.</p>
<p>^ Wow. Fauve’s statement is a little hard to credit and understand. Notwithstanding that most campus crime is student-on-student, it is easy for students to protect themselves against it. It’s just that most of them are dumb, and so fail to take those easy protective measures? Meanwhile, violent street crime, while comparatively rare, is much harder to predict and avoid. Except the vast majority of students DO successfully avoid it, because it’s not very common, and because here, too, alert students can reduce their exposure by taking common-sense safety measures.</p>
<p>Look, I understand that violent street crime is really scary. It is. But people make a much bigger deal about it than its actual incidence warrants, even at colleges like Penn or Chicago where it is a legitimate concern. And they continually downplay the significant dangers posed by living cheek-by-jowl with other 18-22 year-olds from similar backgrounds, even on campuses where “violent urban crime” is practically unknown.</p>
<p>Cross-posted with Hanna. Great minds think almost alike; hers is a little greater.</p>
<p>The Daily Beast recently did a piece on the least safe college campuses, based on reported crimes in the last two years on and in the immediate vicinity of campus. Here are the schools with the worst crime rates:</p>
<p>1) Emerson College (Boston): 80 robberies and 60 assaults in 2007, most of them in the subway station or on nearby Boston Common.
2) St. Xavier University (Chicago)
3) University of Maryland-Baltimore
4) Tufts
5) MIT
6) University of Maryland-Eastern Shore
7) Grambling (Louisiana)
8) South Carolina State
9) Bowie State (Maryland)
10) North Carolina Central
11) Fitchburg State (Massachusetts)
12) Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago)
13) Hampton University (Virginia)
14) University of Baltimore
15) Norfolk State (Virginia)
16) Cal State-Monterey Bay
17) Springfield College (Massachusetts)
18) Brown
19) Buffalo State (NY)
20) Harvard
21) Alabama A&M
22) New Jersey Institute of Technology
23) Yale
24) UC Riverside
25) College of St. Rose (Albany, NY)</p>
<p>Not the usual suspects.</p>
<p>As a parent, this would scare the heck out of me. Then I would realize that, for at least a bit, you know there will be increased awareness and hopefully more law presence. I have never been anywhere in that area… until yesterday. Had just driven D2 back to Allentown, and had a flight to catch out of the Philly airport. My plan was to take the SEPTA from Doylestown to the airport (D would drive me to Doylestown, which I thought would be easier than driving me all the way into Philly). But I missed my train by two minutes, so she ended up having to drive me from Doylestown to the airport, which took us through towns/areas we would otherwise have no reason to go through; many of the suburbs along there were quite desirable. As we got closer to Philly proper, I could see a difference. As we came down I-76 and I began to see signs for Penn, I took a good look around (had time as we were in some traffic) because Penn’s reputation for being in an icky area kind of precedes itself. While we did not get off the interstate, I could see that this was a very impoverished area and definitely began to understand the concerns parents would have… just as they would at any university in a similar neighborhood.</p>
<p>The worst impression of Philadelphia is the one gotten from the expressway, so I understand what you are saying. To appreciate the Penn campus, walking is required. It is truly an awesome campus once your car is parked for $30 or so. Driving past Penn on the way to the airport is grim.</p>
<p>Oh I certainly realized that, but had no intention of getting off the freeway at this point. I’ve often heard it compared to the U-Chicago area, although at least U-Chicago has Hyde Park to its north. If I were driving down the Dan Ryan and tried to make a judgement of U-Chicago based on what I saw from the freeway, I’d not be impressed.</p>
<p>As a sort of side note, D2 and I had a scare of sorts ourselves Saturday night when we were driving back to Allentown. About 30 miles into Pennsylvania, we picked up a ‘follower’ on the road. At first I noticed him/her because everytime he’d/she’d change lanes, there was another car right on his rear that mimicked every move. A couple of times he/she turned their bright lights on… for no reason whatsoever. I would drive in the right lane, hoping they’d pass, but they wouldn’t (and all along, the car behind them continued to go along). After a few miles of this, I decided to try to lose the driver. First, I slowed down to just above 60 (the speed limit was 65) in the right lane. They’d stay in the left lane, and not pass. Then I speeded up to (gasp) 87mph at the highest, and they kept up with me. While in the left lane, I passed a semi, then immediately slowed down and moved back into the right lane, giving just enough difference so that it was safe, but not safe enough for a car to fit in between us. This creep remained in the left lane, not passing us. D and I became somewhat alarmed, and I wanted to pull off an exit, but we were virtually in the middle of nowhere, and I was afraid if I exited, and they followed, we would be completely alone on some dark country highway. So this went on for almost 30 miles, as I kept thinking there would be an exit with commercial services. Several times I adjusted my speed, trying to lose them, with no luck. At least there were other cars around, but no matter how many times I slowed down, they would not pass. A couple of miles before we approached a commercial exit, we entered a construction zone, and I slowed down to about 43… there was no construction and everyone else was still going 65+. Driver still wouldn’t pass. So I pulled in front of a semi again, as I had before (safely) so the driver couldn’t get behind me, and at the last second I pulled off the exit, losing the cars.</p>
<p>So D and I were talking about it afterwards (at one point I’d said if we didn’t find a safe exit within the next five miles I was going to call the Pennsylvania State Police), and she said she would have gotten off at the first exit when she realized what was going on. I told her why I wouldn’t do it, and she did add that she would call us first and tell us what was going on, then exit. But it was very scary, and a great teaching opportunity for my college-aged daughter, who has made the drive between Allentown and Chicago by herself, during the middle of the night (that’s another thread). I think we can try to educate our kids on all kinds of safety concerns, but nothing teaches them better than to have what I’d refer to as a ‘near miss’. I was glad to hear it was something that she gave thought to before I even began to formulate a plan. Doesn’t absolve me from the worrying entitlement, though.</p>
<p>Personally, I believe this is a bigger problem and still goes undiscussed and underreported and is violent crime:
</p>
<p>Personally, I believe this is a bigger problem and still goes undiscussed and underreported and is violent crime:
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing that out, 3togo. I know this is purely anecdotal, but my D, who grew up in NYC is now on a small LAC in the midwest, and the only assaults she has seen/heard of (including rape), were perpetrated by other college students. MOWC, I know this is not the point of your posts, and I’m glad your S is safe. It’s just that this kind of thread seems to turn a blind eye to the dangers right inside your own “house”. (And if I’m being repeating a point others have already said here, sorry. I haven’t read all the pages yet.)</p>
<p>teriwtt, that is indeed a scary story. I think I’d have had the cell phone out and called the police when I realized what was happening. You were clever to let the truck “cut off” the followers. Scary!!!</p>
<p>lafalum - at first I thought I was just imagining it, which is why I didn’t call right away. Had I been completely alone in the car, I might not have waited so long for a diversion. The longer it went on, and I knew it was no figment of my imagination, that’s when I got more focused. All along I kept thinking I wanted to set a good example to my passenger daughter of remaining cool-headed, not provoking the other driver, but taking reasonable action. </p>
<p>Hearing stories like the one at Penn and experiencing my own also reminded me of how different kids handle the same situation, and as parents we need to accept that. Had D1 been with me (or alone), she would have more likely freaked out much earlier - she’s just a more cautious kid. I understand this about my daughters, and I often worry more about D2 because I know her DNA is not programmed to notice subtleties that might heighten awareness in other kids. D1 was at Syracuse (not a very safe area surrounding the campus) and D2 is at Muhlenberg (in the middle of a very nice residential neighborhood). I never really worried about the Syracuse D because I know how cautious she is regarding safety (she’s the one always telling me to zip up my purse), but I still worry a bit with D2, even though she’s in a relatively safe area.</p>
<p>idad, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. I think my D, and her girlfriends, are at greater danger of being assaulted by a fellow college student than in some kind of random stranger crime. I bet statistics would bear me out on this. It has certainly been my D’s experience. She grew up in NYC, riding the subways and dealing with unwanted attention and is very savvy, but even so, she had her first scare with a male student last year who followed her into her room and made some vaguely threatening gestures. Even as a street smart young woman, she had never dealt with this kind of situation, with a fellow student in the confines of a small room with a closed door. It really opened her eyes.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, I appreciate the fact that you are not a simple cheerleader for your alma mater or the school your money goes to.<br>
Another slant less talked about is students who are victims of themselves. Student suicides are much more frequent than student murders at the urban schools I have some familiarity with. And then there are the cutters and food disorders folks. Visit a student health center and you’ll see the pamphlets right away. How the helping professions on campus support themselves.
The urban school I am most intimate with has a murder every two or three decades, and a suicide or two every year.</p>
<p>Well, that’s what I get for opening my big mouth. D2 (who is at the residential neighborhood campus), just Skyped me to tell me about her ‘interesting’ evening. Evidently there was a home break-in tonight on one of the streets that borders campus and supposedly the perpetrator stole some guns. So when the campus police were notified, they instantly sent out a text message to all students, providing them with the information and description of the guy. She was in the practice rooms when it happened, and one of her best friends called immediately to make sure she was OK. When she got back to her university-housing apartment (she just moved in yesterday and barely knows her new apartment mates), they were all worried about her, because none of them had her phone number yet, so they couldn’t check up on her.</p>
<p>While we were skyping, she got another text that they’d gotten a situation all-clear from the Allentown police, but for the students to still be on alert.</p>
<p>Of course, the reason she had to tell me the story was because of the cute boy she met outside of the practice rooms, and he volunteered to walk back to her apartment with her so she wouldn’t be alone (and he lives in the building next to her).</p>
<p>^ looks like your d’s college utilized the texting notification system, that Penn elected not to…</p>
<p>teriwtt-what are the odds something like that happened last night with your daughter at 'berg? I exchanged phone numbers with daughters roomies, which turned out to be very helpful at one time.
Can appreciate your D’s excitement about meeting a new boy, otherwise you might not have heard about the incident.</p>
<p>Glad you arrived safely from your NE extension trip which was quite scary, and great learning experience for D2.</p>
<p>Resurrecting this thread:</p>
<p>[The</a> Temple Law Student Shooter: Questions AboundWas it self-defense? Was the victim a ‘hero’? - Above the Law - A Legal Tabloid - News, Gossip, and Colorful Commentary on Law Firms and the Legal Profession](<a href=“http://abovethelaw.com/2010/01/update_on_gerald_ung_of_temple_law_school.php#more]The”>http://abovethelaw.com/2010/01/update_on_gerald_ung_of_temple_law_school.php#more)</p>
<p>There is a significant amount of discussion about whether this was a case of attempted murder or self defense.</p>
<p>The story going around Penn is that the victim threw the first punches after some words were exchanged when the victim and his friends were doing pull-ups on the scaffolding outside the bar. I still don’t understand why a law student was carrying a gun. There’s the disconnect for me. Glad the victim is improving.</p>