<p>UVa is one university that says they don’t consider demonstrated interest at all. They said for years they never kept track of who showed up for visits to the University - they only added a sign up list in the admissions office because people became upset if they couldn’t sign in.</p>
<p>However, there are many colleges and universities where it will hurt an applicant IF they live within a reasonable distance and there is no record of the student visiting the campus. It is all a matter of trying to bump up their yield rate.</p>
<p>Completely agree with Pleaseadvise. Limiting the common app to 10 applications would force students to think about where they really want to go, while leaving plenty of room for scholarships and other opportunities. It is simply too easy to apply these days and, as a result, there are “college tourists” and “scalp hunters.” Chicago’s numbers tell the story about hiow the common app inflates applications. Since going to the common app, Chicago’s applications increased 54% (per the Maroon) through 2011 with another big increase likely this year (ED up 26%) and their USNWR ranking improved from tied for ninth to tied for fifth. What changed at UChicago to justify this increase – their acceptance of the common app.</p>
<p>In our house where D applied to and was accepted at all 7 schools she applied to (1 Ivy, AW, 3 Women colleges and one mid-sized research university) it meant a 12k difference in financial aid where each school accepted the CSS profile and meet 100% demonstrated need. At the time, her school only allowed student to apply to 8 schools. She only applied to schools where if it were the only school that she was accepted to that she would be happy to attend.</p>
<p>At 200k I totally understand a family’s need to cast a wide net in order to get an affordable school. I would recommend that you take a look at some of the threads on the financial forum from families that applied ED/EA and then got packages that are not financially feasible for their family.</p>
<p>I agree with TutuTaxi that there may be more exceptions. My D would qualify as one of those 20,000. She might apply to ONE Ivy, a few selective LACs, and some others. I don’t agree with the statement that the top 20,000 are applying to the same 20 schools.</p>
<p>My guess is more people apply to 1 or 2 or 3 Ivies than apply to all of them. My D1 didn’t particularly like any of the Ivies except Brown, which she liked less than her first choice, Haverford. She would have applied to Brown and no other Ivies, but she was accepted ED at Haverford so she never completed the rest of her apps. </p>
<p>D of our best friends is applying this year. She loves Yale and applied there SCEA; deferred. She’s also applying to Chicago, Bowdoin, and a bunch of Midwestern LACs; no other Ivies.</p>
<p>D of someone I work with applied to Brown ED last year and was accepted. I don’t think she had any other Ivies on her list if she hadn’t gotten into Brown.</p>
<p>I don’t think those cases are exceptions; I suspect they’re more typical than exceptional. It’s pretty much only the prestige hounds who apply to all the Ivies. Those schools are very different from each other, and if you care at all about “fit” rather than just prestige, it’s hard to imagine you’d find all of them to your liking.</p>
<p>Then there are the many legacies who may apply to the legacy school but not to its rivals. There are the engineering applicants who may apply to Cornell and Princeton because of the strength of their engineering programs, but not to the others which are not as strong in engineering; and the undergrad B-school applicants who apply to Wharton and other top undergrad B-schools, but not to other Ivies that don’t have undergrad business programs. Probably several thousand recruited athletes apply only to the Ivy where they’re being recruited; they’re usually admitted EA or ED. Plus there’s lots of evidence of geographical preferences; Penn gets tons of apps from NY, NJ, and PA but not so many from New England, while Dartmouth gets lots from New England but not so many from NJ, PA, or south from there. Columbia and Penn are about as urban as it gets, while Dartmouth and Cornell are about as rural as it gets; anyone for whom that matters (one way or the other) is unlikely to apply to all 4 of those schools. Applicants looking for a strong Greek life will be drawn to Cornell and Dartmouth, not so much to the rest of the Ivies; those looking to avoid a big Greek scene will avoid Cornell and Dartmouth. And so on. </p>
<p>Then there are just the raw numbers. Cornell and Harvard each get about twice as many apps as Dartmouth.</p>
<p>The Justice department shut down colleges conferring about acceptances (and financial aid) in the early 1990’s, so no, they don’t “talk to each other” about admissions.</p>
<p>Joining the Common Application may have helped Chicago, but they also completely changed their advertising campaign. It was very effective. (At least on my son, who agonized about the choice of Chicago vs Tufts.) I don’t think that Harvard and Yale divvy up admissions lists. More often than not at our school the tippy top students get into both if they’ve applied to both, the ones with very minor flaws get into only one. Sometimes it may be something very small like the supplements being better for one school than another. My younger son especially, felt that he did best at schools where he enjoyed answering the supplement questions.</p>
<p>“Beginning to”? Pleaseadvise, it sounds as though you’ve parachuted in from 15 years ago! Plenty of applicants with SAT scores of 2200 - 2400 are rejected from all of these universities routinely, and have been for quite some time now. You are not uncovering some grand secret.</p>
<p>Essays specific to a school have been de rigueur for years as well.</p>
<p>And campus visits are, for the most part, NOT mandatory. Schools are more than aware that such a policy would favor wealthier students who have the money to be able to travel, and they are plenty interested in the bright kid who may come from halfway across the country and not be able to afford a visit.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what your insights are based on, but they seem rather off.</p>
<p>I agree completely with bclintonk. I think it’s weird to think that more than a relative handful of people are just flat-applying to all the Ivies. Most people are more normal about it, and just look at whatever top schools are of particular interest to them, which may or may not include one or more of those 8 schools.</p>
<p>Of all the Ivy’s DS would only apply to Brown and Dartmouth. HYP? forgetaboutit. No interest at all- all 3 were “too snobby, elite”, etc, etc for him.</p>
<p>I think it’s really the height of upper-middle-class suburban arrogance to think that our children are oh-so-special that of course Harvard and Yale are discussing / fighting over them. You know, they have 20,000 other kids to go through too. Give me a freakin’ break. Unless the kid is a celebrity in his own right, or you are too.</p>
<p>re: post 32^^NO they are not- read:
FACT :The Justice department shut down colleges conferring about acceptances (and financial aid) in the early 1990’s, so no, they don’t “talk to each other” about admissions. </p>
<p>On May 22,
1991, the Justice Department entered into a consent decree with
the eight Ivy League colleges under which the schools agreed to
disband the “Overlap Group,” an association of colleges that had
met each spring since 1954. to exchange financial aid information
about students accepted at more than one of the member schools.
The consent decree was filed simultaneously with the federal government’s
civil lawsuit against the Ivy League schools and the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology (“MIT”). The lawsuit alleges
that the practice of meeting and sharing financial aid information
constituted a violation of the Sherman Act.
By the terms of the consent decree, the schools discontinued
their practice of exchanging information but denied any wrongdoings
For the Ivy League schools, the consent decree was the
culmination -of a two-year investigation by the Justice Department
into the mechanisms by which the schools . set their financial aid
awards. As part of the consent decree, the government agreed to
drop the lawsuit. In addition, the Justice Department notified
twenty five of the fifty-five colleges and universities originally targeted
for inquiry that they were no longer under investigation."
The eight Ivy League schools are Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania and Yale University.
The other members of the Overlap Croup were Amherst College, Barnard College, Bowdoin College, Bryn Mawr College, Colby College, Massachusetts
Institute of Technology (“MIT”), Middlebury College, Mount Holyoke College, Smith
College, Trinity College, Tufts University, Vassar College, Wellesley College, Wesleyan University and Williams College. </p>
<p>According to the Justice Department, the sharing of students’
financial information constituted a conspiracy to set financial aid
awards at a fixed level for any given applicant, thereby depriving
students of the benefits of price competition.’</p>
<p>There are more than a handful on the HYP & Stanford threads who (self admittedly) applied to five or more of the top 20. Why not look at who was accepted and rejected threads and see for yourself?</p>
<p>Menloparkmom…I just wish I could believe that the schools continued to follow a justice department decree. Unfortunately, over the past year, I have become pretty convinced that there are many shady practices in much of the college admission process. I believe that the college admission process should either go with a match process like medical residencies are done, or with a recruiting/drafting process like pro sports. I have not come up with a good payment process that is fair to all.</p>
<p>The schools are probably using other factors now beyond any consent decree that get at similar results-are they full pay,legacies,athletes,celebrities, interviewed,etc? They just seem to not be able to talk among themselves these days. Not hard to tell usually though where a kid comes from. Most kids just don’t have the luxury of applying to numerous schools unless there is tremendous support. BIL played a sport at an Ivy,husband recruited too but chose not to attend, family member playing now. Most kids are still going to CC, state schools . Nothing wrong with that for any motivated kid.</p>
<p>“Unfortunately, over the past year, I have become pretty convinced that there are many shady practices in much of the college admission process.”
That is unfortunate, but the cease and desist order against those VERY prominent colleges, and the publicity that followed, was a VERY big deal and is not something that other college admissions office will shrug off lightly, or think the can get away with disregarding, believe me.</p>
<p>Interesting, because on CC at least, Bowdoin, BMawr, Colby, Mt Holyoke, Smith, Trinity, Tufts, Vassar, Wellesley and Wesleyan aren’t quite seen as “Ivy substitutes.” Maybe the colleges know more about their competitive sets than the CC crowd does.</p>