<p>texaspg take a look at some of the accepts vs. deferred at UMich and even BC. It’s not quite like U. of Chicago—but many applicants w/SATs approaching or higher than 2150-2200 and very high GPAs are being deferred while some in the 1900 or lower range are being accepted. Admissions seems to be sniffing out kids who may be using their school as a “safety”. I’m sure that can be easily discerned in some essays, but most of those kids know how to fill out an application and are aware that their essays need to be thoughtful, relevant to the specific school and error-free. Not all of those w/low stats are kids w/hooks either (URM, recruited athlete, legacy). That an essay could so far overshadow 3-4 years of diligent work in H.S. and test score in the top 3% nationally seems weird. Of course at Chicago, M.I.T. etc., it is not unusual to see Valedictorians, NM finalists, 2380-2400 SATs get deferred (and often the applicant is all 3 of those). BTW many on this thread will tell you that the number of applications are not going up and strong candidates are not applying to 10 or more schools. They are wrong.</p>
<p>Yield numbers don’t “improve” that fast, even if they are being actively managed. (Which of course Chicago has never done, being one of the few top schools with completely unrestricted EA.) It’s rare that yield changes more than a percentage point or two per year. In all the years I have been watching Chicago admissions closely – it goes back to 2004 now – the number of applications has gone from under 9,000 to far more than 20,000, and there has been practically NO change in yield, which has pretty much stuck in a 36-38% band.</p>
<p>There is a much simpler explanation for Chicago’s acceptance pattern: You can’t read the applicants’ essays.</p>
<p>but are essays really the litmus test of who is accepted versus who is rejected? OK, if you have a couple applicants one w/ an SAT of 2300 and another w/an SAT of 2360 and comparable GPA and course rigor–then maybe it should be. But if you breakdown a kid w/a 2360 SAT versus one w/a 1950 or 2000 SAT on the basis of his essay response it seems a bit unfair–unless he is unduly arrogant or completely lacks passion about the school. Of course they are not sizing applications up in a showdown like that, they are indeed viewing holistically and striving for a certain mix of eclectic yet capable students—but my gosh, there are many, many stellar applicants being deferred. And there are probably many applicants getting professional or teacher or parent help w/those essays.</p>
<p>the appropriate riposte would be: life isn’t fair, and besides those kids w/the 2300-2400 SATs are going to do just fine wherever they end up, first choice school or not. I think that misses the point, but then i am arguing w/myself so what do i know?</p>
<p>JHS - IMHO, Chicago is changing their policies on who they admit just like they have changed their marketing to invite the whole world to apply. I would not write off a selective range of scores being admitted to their exceptional essays since it can only mean that kids getting 800s in their reading and writing don’t know how to write essays. I suspect they started using data on admitted students to determine who is likely to show up.</p>
<p>Chicago sent out t-shirts to people who submitted their SAT scores throughout summer and fall. Yesterday a parent said a T-shirt showed up this week for her DS although he has never shown any interest whatsoever and this is two weeks before the application deadline. This is probably based on NMSF status, while they are deffering people with that status during EA.</p>
<p>one question worth pondering is whether there is a much higher hurdle rate for the applicant who has attended a private prep school, received private test tutoring for a year or more, and comes from an obviously affluent and well-educated background. Remember all that info is found or can likely be inferred from the common app.,in conjunction w/address of residence and the parents’ education. So for an applicant who has had every possible advantage, probably taken 25-50 practice SAT tests w/added coaching, test-taking skills, teaching from private tutors and teachers at private schools, maybe even had a “Tiger Mom” on his case from the age of 2–“what else does this kid bring to the table” may be the question asked every now and then. texas pg, it may get so bad that on the day the kid walks out the door to take his SAT test his parents’ say: “We know you have gotten all perfect or near-perfect scores on the many practice tests you have taken, but remember to miss a few and leave a couple blank today and we’ll begin work on your essays when you get home”. I’m joking of course, kinda</p>
<p>If there is any school which really cares a lot about essays, it’s probably Chicago.</p>
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I’ve wondered about this–it’s plausible to me that colleges might apply a discount factor to SAT scores if they believe it’s likely that the kid had a lot of prep. This could be unfair (and even racist), but you could probably make some fairly educated guesses about the likelihood of significant test prep among a lot of applicants.</p>
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That would have been my son two years ago and he certainly considered Chicago up to the last minute. (It was the highest ranked of the schools he got into.) I think it’s more that they pride themselves in finding the diamonds in the rough. In my son’s case, his less than perfect grades and scores reflected some real strengths with some LDs for which he received no accomodations. I believe his recommendations were stellar and I thought his essays were great. Not too earnest, they really showed both his intellect and his sense of humor. He writes a great essay by the way, just not in the 20 minutes the SAT allows. I’m not convinced they are changing who they admit, but they definitely improved their marketing. A process that continued after the EA admit. I’m not sure the high scorers always get what Chicago is looking for. The essays really do matter. When they sent holiday cards to the EA admits everyone who received one got a comment about their essays. (My son’s Why Chicago essay started with an entire paragraph of the reasons he thought his parents were crazy to suggest Chicago to him.)</p>
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<p>I don’t know that there is a specific discount factor but MIT certainly looks at SAT scores in context of family income/background. MIT rep on cc has said as much. Also, the way it was discussed in “Gatekeepers” made it seem like a common practice, for whatever that is worth.</p>
<p>Of course there’s a higher hurdle for private prep schools, etc. But after all that higher hurdling, more kids from that kind of background get admitted than from anywhere else. It’s a crowded field, but overall those kids are NOT disadvantaged. They just aren’t permitted to block out every other sort of kid.</p>
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<p>There can’t be very many at all (doesn’t seem possible mathematically), which is why I asked if these schools were talking to one another. It seems implausible to me that the yields can be so high at each of these schools if roughly the same kids are applying to most of them. Since everyone seems to agree that these schools are not talking to one another, I guess they must be getting more unique applicants than I originally thought.</p>
<p>Also, some applicants getting in based on institutional needs probably have close to a 100% yield for the school that “needs” them. Perhaps there are enough of these applicants to keep all of the yield averages up.</p>
<p>mathmom - I don’t mean to imply that the people they are choosing are not worthy of the admission. I am certain your son would have been a great addition to Chicago if he chose to go there. I am only suggesting that they are deferring people based on some criteria beyond the essays. </p>
<p>Here is what deferred people need to do:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Have your school send us a “mid-year report.” Occasionally, students are deferred because we want to see these senior year grades. If you have new testing, be sure to send those scores as well.</p></li>
<li><p>Send an email to your regional counselor. This should be a thoughtful paragraph or two specifying why UChicago remains your first choice. There are no hard deadlines, but keep in mind we will release decisions in March.</p></li>
</ul>
<p><a href=“https://blogs.uchicago.edu/collegeadmissions/[/url]”>https://blogs.uchicago.edu/collegeadmissions/</a></p>
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<p>Why? And for heaven’s sake, you’re talking specifically about U of Chicago - if that is a school where they really want to understand your unique “voice” via your essays, that’s pretty much the poster child. Just because YOU think a 2360 SAT should always trump a 2000 SAT (in the absence of an essay revealing that the 2360 SAT tortures kittens) is, frankly, irrelevant to what these schools look for. If they thought they were getting sub-optimal or inferior students with their criteria, they’d change them. If they’re happy with a strong focus on essays, then who are you to suggest that they should go back primarily to number-evaluations?</p>
<p>It may be that Chicago defers you if your recommendations don’t say that you are “quirky.”</p>
<p>boy oh boy pizzagirl, I was just waiting for you to chime in. I don’t mean to antagonize or bait you in the least, but despite that, you always seem to get lathered up. I wish you the best, but you need to shift your single-minded focus and read the many comments that are not so disimilar to mine. Dare I say, even a few people agree w/me. I am sure many agree w/you. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and I fully respect that.</p>
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<p>While I agree that schools are probably not talking directly to each other about applicants, I don’t agree that schools don’t know where certain applicants are more likely to attend if accepted. Some whiz kids are naive enough to reveal their top choice in a local newspaper article. Some guidance counselors are indiscrete. Teachers, friends, etc gossip. If a school is concerned about whether a particular student will matriculate, I think they can frequently find out and sometimes do.</p>
<p>Obviously what I believe can be completely wrong.</p>
<p>edit: what kind of information could be gleaned from analysis of some of the student threads here on cc? Is it worth an admissions office’s time to assign someone to do that research? idk</p>
<p>edit 2: I don’t know any student who used the USNWR list and applied to the top 10 or 20 or whatever schools. Or every ivy. Or HYPSM.</p>
<p>Q: In your experience, were there any rules about where seniors could apply or what they had to do if they were accepted at certain schools?</p>
<p>For example, was there a limit to the number of colleges one could apply to?
Was there a specific formula as to number of reach, match, safety?
Was there a limit to number of Ivies or other group of low acceptance schools?
Did GC “guide” you away from applying to certain schools where a bunch of other classmates were applying?
Did GC ask you to rank colleges on your list by where you would most like to go?
Were there any rules about Early apps, such as limiting it to just one, even for EA; requiring attendance if admitted (dropping all other /RD apps)?</p>
<p>I am asking this for a number of reasons.
I have actually heard of a variety of these rules at a number of different types of HS.
The primary one is related to the topic of this thread, and whether there are a ton of cross-admits or not to top colleges: some of this may be managed at the GC/HS/applicant level.
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These definitely do enhance the chance of “spreading the wealth” and limit “notches on the belt”.
Rules like these makes it easy for a GC to say to a college counselor, “These are our rules, and this show how serious our applicants are about the schools they apply to.”</p>
<p>Ultimately, this type of strategy would be more likely in place at high schools with a tremendous amount of experience and relatively good contact relationships with the top colleges (preps, magnets…) This does constitute a sort of advantage, this comes with penalties to the freedom of individual students. I do feel, like JHS, that this strategic sort of advantage is counter-balanced by the fact that the AdComms do spend an enormous amount of resources, time and energy looking for hidden gems, who likely do not have sophisticated or connected GC’s, and prefer those without advantages and a good track record.</p>
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I don’t disagree. I’m pretty sure the letters of recommendations and activities play a role too. I know that what my son’s math teacher’s letter said, was just about perfect for Chicago. And I know his history teacher wouldn’t write a letter unless you gave him a copy of a paper you wrote in his class, a paragraph about which text you’d liked best, another paragraph about what you were thinking of studying in college and why, and a couple of other similar questions. I suspect that resulted in something other than a cookie cutter recommendation. I really don’t think that Chicago thinks SAT scores are that accurate a reflection of intellect, and personally I think they are correct in that assessment.</p>
<p>performersmom, our (very large) high school with overwhelmed counselors doesn’t do any of that. They do alert students (and parents) to consider EA and ED though.</p>
<p>performersmom - there are private schools out there which limit how many applications students can send to the reach schools and whether they can designate their top choices internally so if they get in EA, the others apps are put on shelf so someone else has a shot at other schools. However, most public schools will not and can not do that for the fear of being sued. They also don’t see any need to control it either because they dont get recognized for sending kids to top colleges but only for sending more kids to college.</p>