Is the idea (i’m forgetting already) that the NEW 2017-2018 SAT scores were lower than expected (based on concordance) because many of the kids that enrolled fall 2017 came in with old SAT scores: the Fall 2017 enrolled students CDS were ‘artificially’ higher because of the old scores were upconverted to the new format (using the bad concordance)? We are expecting the Fall 2018 SAT scores using ‘all new’ SATs to be lower, is that it @BorgityBorg ?
@suzyQ7 Yes, you have it correct, if when you wrote “Fall 2017” you meant “Fall 2018”?
So to use an example, Mount Holyoke reported on their 2016-2017 CDS (old) SAT scores of 740 M / 720 CR / 710 W at the 75th percentile. Those would be concorded to (new) SAT scores of 760 M / 745 EBRW (I’m obviously doing some averaging there on EBRW). But their 2017-2018 CDS (students enrolled fall of 2017) reported (new) SAT scores of 750 M / 713 EBRW at the 75th percentile. That’s a drop of 42 points combined, from 1505 to 1463.
That’s one of the higher drops – the median drop across the 40 schools when I looked at it was a drop of just 20 – but hopefully the example helps. It seems highly unlikely to me that Mount Holyoke’s enrolled student population at the 75th percentile would have dropped by 42 points in one year solely because the “quality” of student population as measured by test scores went down. I know that MHC is test-optional, but I don’t think that would explain it – after all, high scorers would still be motivated to submit their scores. I think most of the drop is associated with poor concordance between the old and new SAT.
The fall 2018 freshmen whose scores will be reported in the 2018-2019 CDS could have scores slightly lower to the extent that the 2017-2018 scores contained some inflated old SAT scores, but I would guess that impact to be minimal.
I have often wondered if the schools are dealing with this issue by comparing SAT test takers to other SAT test takers…I could see that being a can or worms but at least it would be more “fair”.
On my end, the reason I want to see the concordance table “corrected” is because I want my student to be treated fairly. The SAT tutor we use who is amazing at what she does says that she thinks the schools know the SAT is a harder test and view it accordingly. But when my daughter’s (Old, excluding writing) SAT score of a 1540 wasn’t registering a 35 on the charts, I felt that wasn’t fair. She ended up doing fine and got into her top choices (all except for one) and my gut is her 1540 was ultimately viewed as high as a 35 (impossible to prove I know, but it’s just my gut from being a CC nerd and following this stuff so closely).
All schools deny it, and this may be a topic for a different thread, but I still hear occasionally that the SAT is more respected and that some top schools “prefer” it…I really haven’t seen much evidence of that with the exception of seeing lots of 34/35’s not get into some programs that I would expect them to get in to…but again, impossible to really know for sure without seeing the applicant’s entire application. I feel like I noticed this more than ever this year.
"All schools deny it, and this may be a topic for a different thread, but I still hear occasionally that the SAT is more respected and that some top schools “prefer” it…I really haven’t seen much evidence of that with the exception of seeing lots of 34/35’s not get into some programs that I would expect them to get in to…but again, impossible to really know for sure without seeing the applicant’s entire application. I feel like I noticed this more than ever this year. "
I feel that may have been the case historically (at least in the northeast - but that is regional preference) but since the new SAT, I don’t think that is the case anymore. The new SAT is such a mess with the rollout and the concordance, etc, I feel that the adcoms in 2017/2018 could felt closer to the ACT scores than SAT. But what do I know.
My feeling after looking at this ad nauseam - when the New SAT was rolled out most schools extrapolated the new scores based on concordance to compare applicants who had taken the Old SAT to those with New SAT scores (because this was the only guidance given by the College Board). Now that schools are receiving a statistically insignificant number of Old SAT takers as applicants, they are looking at the new SAT exclusively and independent of concordance so they are basing their acceptances on the SAT scores within their applicant pool.
Thus, we are seeing each individual admissions departments results of their offers to SAT taking applicants within their pool. So I think as a student or parent applying, you need to look at each situation on a school by school basis.
I don’t think it has to do with schools “favoring” or “valuing” the SAT over the ACT or vice versa as much as it has to with the quality of the ACT applicant pool or that of the SAT applicant pool. The top schools are looking at academic rigor and grades first and then looking to validate the applicants strength from test scores. So these are where the quality students fall on each test that most accurately correlate the other parts of their strength as applicants.
I have also resigned myself to the fact that schools probably don’t make correlations between ACT and SAT scores. They seem to look at test takers of the ACT or SAT as separate entities so the “reverse concordance” exercise is more than likely being done more on forums than in admissions offices.
My advice would be to look at each school’s most recent middle 50% schools for each test and see where you fall for the test you’ve taken. Trying to determine the emphasis placed on one test vs the other is an exercise in futility because my feeling is it’s looked at as separate pools.
@cavitee The problem with looking at the current published SAT stats for each school is wondering how accurate those stats are since many of those test scores are from the old SAT that were converted to the new SAT based on flawed College Board concordance tables.
I do know that some college coaches were having trouble getting some of their recruits with new SAT scores past admissions because admissions was using the College Board concordance tables to qualify the recruits. The coaches then instructed these same recruits to take the ACT and they had no trouble meeting the academic thresholds.
@shuttlebus wow. I wonder if AOs ever knew those stories. Kids couldn’t hit SAT targets but could hit ACT ones. Interesting.
Because my child’s primary focus is UVa so that’s I focus predominantly, in the class of 2017 stats Dean J had noted they published exclusively New SAT results because their were so few Old SAT submissions. That was now 2 cycles ago so my assumption is the Old SAT and SAT to SAT concordance has been pretty much phased out
@Cavitee this last admitted class would have had to have taken their SAT during soph year in order for it to be an old SAT. It makes sense that there weren’t many kids doing that.
What are everyone’s expectations for this new table? Sounds like we are all thinking that maybe 1580/1590 should really be seen as 36s and then the 35s get shifted down a little. But what happens farther down the chart? Anything?
I know for a fact that this past admission cycle, at least some of the highly selective schools were converting new SAT scores to the old SAT scores when evaluating recruited athletes. The coaches were frustrated because it was clear to them that the belief that the new SAT was easier than the old SAT was simply not true based on what they were seeing. However, the adcoms were using the official info from the CB when evaluating applicants. Some of the coaches that my D19 spoke with with were advising their recruits to take the ACT and not even bother taking the SAT.
@homerdog. My understanding is that the adcoms know since these recruits couldn’t get past admissions with their submitted SAT scores, but retested taking the ACT and cleared the thresholds.
@shuttlebus, that’s pretty much in line with what our NYC high school GC tells the kids. Study for and take the SAT first. If you don’t reach our target scores for the schools you are interested in, then take the ACT. Thought the GC had just a personal preference for the SAT, but seems in line with the college coaches you reference. Thanks for sharing.
@thinkon My friend’s son who went through the recruiting process last year was also given the same advice as my D has been given this year. The coaches we spoke with will also be happy when the College Board releases their new concordance tables. I asked one of the coaches if he thought the tables were wrong, and he said why else would the College Board be releasing new ones if the current ones were accurate, but until the new ones come out, the adcoms are using the ones that they have.
@homerdog My personal guess is that the 2018 table will look more like the old-old, 2009 table (that was for the Old SAT, this one: http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/ACTCollegeBoardJointStatement.pdf) Above 1500, I don’t think it matters - or at least it shouldn’t matter, to adcoms - as that’s all 99th percentile, which currently starts at 1480, and score differences up there are splitting hairs, with every ten SAT points representing a single question. Looking at percentiles alone (not a proper concordance method) the differences would be in the 1300-1500 range, sometimes off by one point or occasionally even two. Based on scores reported by colleges for 2021 in this thread, I think 32 will reach down to 1400. This matters not for top-10-ish but for the rest of the top-50, the many schools with enrolled student score ranges around ACT 31-34, where the 25th percentile for admitted students may be 32.
I’m also interested to see whether College Board releases a new percentile chart in September for actual class of 2018 percentiles, as they did last fall for class of 2017.
Schools don’t always report SAT composites and the CDS does not ask for it. (And another thing - why is ACT English reported in the CDS but not reading? Wouldn’t ACT English correspond to SAT Writing multiple choice, essentially grammar?)
The current ACT to SAT conversion table definitely needs to be changed.
The Stevenson High School is one of the top public high school in Illinois. There are around 1000 students to graduate every year. In class of 2018, there are 32 students with ACT perfect score(36). Also, There are more than 20 students with 36 ACT in class 0f 2019 so far.
In this school, there are about 40 NMSF students.
So how many students received 1600 on SAT each year?
We are at one of the other high performing school districts in the Chicago area. We have yet to find a 1600 but S19 personally knows at least a dozen kids with 36s. He has one friend with a 1580
Wow, I love all of this info and I feel better knowing that it’s not my imagination or just my statistically invalid opinion…Kids are NOT scoring as high as someone thought they would on the New SAT and the test is just harder than the ACT. Fascinating about the coaches telling athletes to switch to ACT and then hitting their score!!
I feel like a 1500-1570 should be a 35 and then as someone said 1580 and up should be a 36. I have also never heard of anyone getting a 1600 on the new and I hear about 36’s. Similarly, I hear of very very few 1500s and TONS of 35’s. Tons. But like I said…I saw lots of 35’s not get their top choice school…but that could just be because there are more ACT test takers these days.
It is going to be very interesting to see the new charts. My gut feeling is they will adjust the relationship in the right direction but not as much as many of us think they should because I think ACT is participating in the conversion and probably will want to keep their relative numbers higher.
The biggest question is do the Admissions people realize the NEW SAT is a harder test than the ACT. My feeling is yes, but it does vary by school. I am anxiously awaiting the updated stats on many colleges’ websites for the class of 2022. That’s really the missing link here. The few I’ve seen do suggest that the SAT scores of the admitted students correlate with lower ACT scores (using the current chart) than the kids being accepted that submitted the ACT. So hopefully this is a good sign that the colleges have figured this out. You would think they are a few steps ahead of us!
I don’t have the perfect SAT score information about this school. Stevenson high school post the perfect ACT students name in school website. Now, they already removed this info. I don’t know why.
@ILBHHS it’s probably just because those were seniors with perfect scores and they’ve graduated. If the school always does this, then I guess they’ll just do it again with next year’s seniors and their 36s.
They post several years information when I saw it.
There were only a couple of students with perfect act score several years ago.