There’s no way that a perfect score would ever be 75th percentile. Yes, the new SAT scores and percentiles are both being inflated…but definitely not by that much.
I got a 1300 on the SAT, which converts to an 1820. But I was in the 91st percentile and an 1820 is in a much lower percentile. Can someone please respond on what’s going on over at collegeboard or if the concordance tables will change as more new SATs are given.
The Compass table is very helpful; however, a few universities - Carnegie Mellon, for example - admit to the various colleges rather than just one undergraduate college so general SAT ranges may not be as helpful. Therefore, it’s a good idea to look on the individual websites as well and, if necessary, do those college-by-college conversions using the Score Converter.
@newsattaker This is really interesting. Does this mean less “smart” students took the March sitting and the percentile got messed up?
Apparently, a 26 ACT is a 1310 new SAT.
I think the percentages are worded differently now are they not? Instead of for example a"98% scored lower" isn’t it “99% score the same or lower” so there is that too.
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@newsattaker @GMKoon there are a couple things going on: 1) when you get your percentiles for a particular test, it’s never the actual curve FOR THAT TEST. Instead it’s a curve based on previous administrations of the test. However, that obviously doesn’t exist for the initial administration of the revised test. So they have to use a “research study” to arrive at those User Group percentiles. If that study was conducted poorly (as seemed to be the case for the new PSAT) OR if the actual student population taking the initial test was so completely different as to render the research study unrepresentative (such as hords of students avoiding the exam this year on the advice of counsellors, test prep experts, or just due to uncertainty), then you are going to see percentiles that could well be out-of-whack with any concordance table. That’s why it’s so important to go off of the latter because at least there is a comparison to actual results of something. 2) Even assuming similar populations, the new SAT is just different from the old one - new questions, new format, new scaling. That actually makes concordance between new and old to be something that is at best an estimate. A concordance table is still needed, of course, but it’s not going to be as accurate as, say, a concordance explaining just scale differences.
So there’s a lot of noise (i.e. uncertainty) pertaining both to the user percentiles AND to the concordance. Which one has more accurate information? I’m betting it’s the concordance. First of all, the administration of the new PSAT has already revealed GLARING differences between the user group percentiles and concordance with the latter proving to be a much better indicator of what state cut-offs are going to be this year. CB might really have messed up their research studies. Second, although it may seem like CB prepared those concordance tables for the CC crowd, in reality they prepared them for two important customer groups: high school counselors and college Adcoms. They are going to put a lot of thought into those tables. The user percentiles are really only College Readiness benchmarks and that’s something that the obviously-college-bound don’t really need to worry about at this point.
A couple more points while I’m on the soapbox:
OF COURSE the competition is going to use the current turmoil to gain market share. They’d be fools not to. Hence little gems like this one are very likely going to be part of their marketing strategy over the next year: http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Scores-You-Can-Trust.pdf
Playing it safe by avoiding the test altogether might work as a strategy but most likely Adcoms can tell when an applicant tries to play it safe. Those who need to take the SAT or who WANT to take the SAT should do so w/o trepidation or worries about “how colleges will respond to the test” or fears that they are being experimented upon. Whether it’s a good test is really between College Board and their deep pocketed clientele (hint: that’s not you, students and parents). Worries that the students will get burned are most likely unfounded. If anything, these kids who took the March test should get brownie points for bucking conventional wisdom and taking a risk.
@Mamelot Do you think colleges will just take the new SAT scores they receive this fall, perform their own statistical analysis based on actual test takers, and ignore the noise coming from the CB?
@bucketDad they wil most likely just focus on the percentile
Is it really worth all this uncertainty and stress?
ACT C25, C30, C34: At least we know what those numbers mean.
SAT 1300, 1400, 1500: What do those numbers mean? Are they enough for target schools? Who knows.
Sometimes it’s better to just wait until the dust settles before charging in.
@mamelot I have so many questions. First off, why curve at all? And if they do curve why not curve the current test?
These tests have to curve to maintain the Bell “curve” (i.e., most of the population scores in the middle, with a few on the low side, and a few on the high side).
And they can’t “curve” based just on one test administration because that would not be statistically accurate/significant. It has to be curved based on a large sample size administered over several tests. Therefore, the score you get on one test in any given month can be compared to a score achieved on a test in any other month.
There is no such thing as an “easy” or “hard” month. If a test is easier than another, the scales account for that. That’s why you can make 1 mistake on one test and still get a perfect score, whereas one mistake on another test drops your score. The former is an “harder” test, the latter is an “easier” test.
Thank you @mmk2015. Even after the curve don’t most students end up on the middle as well? Is the ACT also curved? The ACT posted a short essay about the concordance tables and how their scores helped predict how many students would get a B or C in college classes. So are these tests showing college readiness? And if so why is the curve necessary. I’m having a block here.
@Agentninetynine Yes the ACT is also curved.
Yes, ACT “norms” like SAT, but ACT is based on a larger sample size: 5.6 million students, three years worth of testing (2013, 2014, 2015).
I don’t know if these tests show college readiness. A few colleges ran studies recently (I don’t remember which ones, but you can easily Google that info) that indicated that GPA was a better indicator of college readiness than these test scores. The idea is that 4 years worth of grades is more valuable insight than 4 hrs or testing.
Of course, you can easily argue that grade inflation makes it really hard to compare GPAs of students across different schools, especially across different countries. So these tests allow comparison on one common test.
The best answer for how to best determine college readiness is probably to look at everything: GPA, Standardized Test Scores, Extra Curriculars, college application essays, etc. The so called “Hollistic” approach.
Thanks again @mmk2015. I have also read the study regarding gpa. When it’s all broken down, it’s a little crazy making to think how little these tests really say about the student, but how much attention scores are given.
@GMTplus7 says: " You end up with the situation at UT Austin where kids admitted on the basis of class rank in non-rigorous schools, are flunking out of college."
I notice your other posts on this subject are fact based and the problem with my post is that it is fantasy. What I meant is that if every school didn’t consider the SAT scores, and used only other data. I am actually ashamed that I posted what I did, because clearly, it is never going to happen that SAT/ACT scores won’t be used, just as there will probably not ever be world peace. But IF no school used test scores, including the top schools, what happened at UT Austin wouldn’t be a factor.
@Erin’sDad: I think most schools use test scores, but are “test optional” in order to NOT report some scores,and only report the scores for students who have high scores. That isn’t really what I mean.
I shouldn’t have posted what I did, because I know it won’t happen. It’s just that this past weekend I was talking to some seniors from my D2’s high school. These kids are all going to top fifty schools. They are all great students. We had a discussion about how nice it was to be done with college admissions. I made a comment about how stressful college admissions is these days. The kids went on to tell me that they thought it was too much pressure and all the reasons why. Test scores is a big reason. These kids (including mine) are done with that, and now a whole new crop of kids will have that pressure. I think it is a shame.
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@bucketDad beats the heck outta me. I think it will depend on the college. Some schools (including at least one that my D3 is applying to) require all scores to be sent. Of course that’s going to provide quite a bit of data on an applicant-by-applicant basis already.
The general rule should probably still hold: submit your best score unless otherwise directed. If you want to provide context that’s specific to YOU (as opposed to general conversion factors) then also provide another score from another test (either ACT or one of the SATs).
D3 is probably going to provide all her scores to everyone (she has ACT, new SAT and subject tests). While her ACT stacks up best against “the competition” her new SAT results are totally consistent and within the 50% range of some pretty selective schools. It won’t hurt to submit and can only help. Sadly, she doesn’t expect to do nearly as well (percentile-wise) on her subject tests. Good grief a perfect 800 on Math II is the 81st percentile!!!
@Mamelot Is this the way it’s always been or is this due to the SAT changes?