<p>D just called with her scores. She went up on her V and Math quite a bit (total of 180 points - 140 which were in math). Her scores on the old test were without studying much and not good, so she was pleased with that improvement. However, writing was 50 points lower than her SAT II in writing and not close to what she thinks she can do. She is registered for SAT iis in June but now thinks she would like to retake and focus mostly on writing. Xiggi, you seem to think not. D feels very strongly she wants to be done with SAT testing when summer comes. However, she is also concerned that math score might go down. oh what to do.....</p>
<p>Mezzomom, sorry for having been rather cryptic. </p>
<p>The College Board has upgraded its reporting policies. Since I did not take the March or May testw, I do not really know what is included in the new reports. The additional services that used to be available were the purchase of a full report (SAS) or the purchase of the entire test via the Q&A service (QAS). Those services were -or are- very helpful to pinpoint the areas that need improvement. Finding as much official information about the last two SAT is crucial. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The SAT Online Score Report
Along with the new SAT comes a new SAT online score report. The SAT online score report is available free to every student who takes the SAT?all you need is a collegeboard.com account.</p>
<p>While you'll still receive your SAT score report in the mail, the SAT online score report contains additional features to help you understand your SAT scores.</p>
<p>Benefits of the SAT Online Score Report: </p>
<p>Your SAT scores online anywhere?at home and at school
A printable copy of your actual essay response
Useful information about your scores, such as the number of questions that you answered right, wrong, or omitted, the total number of questions, your raw score, and the estimated percentile for college-bound seniors based on the test you took.
Your Score History?confirm which SAT tests you've taken and when, your scores, and where you sent them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here's a list of the services available for an extra fee:</p>
<p>It seems that the QAS service is not available for all March 2005 tests and May 2005.
<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/reg/services/qas.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/reg/services/qas.html</a></p>
<p>After checking what is available for free, you may decide to contact TCB for additional information.</p>
<p>I think we're about to wave the white flag and surrender. My d is just doing horribly on this test. She just took it the one time- but scores were in line with PSAT& Kaplan practice tests (she took the course). She is so bummed out by the experience, that the more she studies, the worse she does. So even though she is scheduled to take it again in June, I think she is going to sit it out. She took the ACT in April (very last minute decision as she expected to take it in June after the SAT). I am so glad she took it in April as her score was better than the SAT converted score. She is taking ACT again in June. She doesn't seem to HATE this test as much as the SAT's so hopefully they'll be some more improvement. We realized that the SAT was a problem for her, so the schools we're looking at seem realistic for a kid with lousy scores but good grades (89 average and NHS). But we will have a community college as a safety because of her SAT scores.</p>
<p>Xiggi, thanks for the links. Once we get the test report, I'll see if we need more info and take it from there.</p>
<p>As I've reflected on my conversation [semi-monologue] with my daughter, I realized my greatest concern is similar to what marny1 described with her daughter...the blow to her confidence. </p>
<p>I'm going to propose to her tonight that we do 30 minutes of ACT prep TOGETHER every night before the June test; it might give me some insight into her areas of weakness that I'm just not picking up on from seeing her schoolwork. But mostly I just want her to know that less-than-stellar test scores are not a reflection on her intelligence or aptitude, so if we slog through the process together, it might not seem so much like punishment.</p>
<p>I do wonder if there is any truth to statements like "Some kids just aren't good at standardized tests." I'm not looking for an excuse for my daughter; I just don't know enough about learning styles to know if there is any validity to the claim. It's very clear to me that my daughter sees the world at a different tilt than I do, and it makes me wonder if this is part of her hang-up with the SATs. I do think that she is capable of learning any "tricks of the trade" that may be necessary, but it sure would be nice if we could identify where the weakness is.</p>
<p>Marny1, I don't know why I am reading this thread...maybe because I was there last year. Kids can do amazing things. My son didn't care much about the SAT. None of his friends were too bothered since they were applying to German schools and the UK. By fall, he wanted to go to one school he had visited in the summer. (By the way, this school no longer asks for SAT scores) He sat down and did 6 practice SAT tests over a week before the October SAT. His score increased 150 pts. He was happy! But it wasn't the SAT score that got him into every school where he applied. It was the combination of everything. Don't get too upset about the SAT scores. It's worth working to try and raise the score if you can. If not...work on your resume, your essays, raise your gpa 1st semester senior year. Be sensible about your colleges. With so many great schools in the US of A there is one that is just right for your wonderful daughter!</p>
<p>And Mezzomom too! Son is musician. Some kids are not good at standardized tests including our salutatorian who is going to UVa.</p>
<p>Hi Overseas. I agree with you. That is exactly what we are doing. Her grades are great- as are her EC's. She is a very fine candidate for so many schools. But we actually think it will be better for her not to take the SAT's again as I believe it will have more of a negative effect. She is fine studying for the ACT simply because it is not the SAT. She did ok on the ACT in April with hardly any preparation as she did not expect to take the test then. By us not "forcing" her to take the SAT again, I think we are trying to show her that we are not stressing over the whole college admission process. We are realistic in the college selection process but we will probably include 1 community college as an absolute safety. I believe she will have some good choices next year as we are being realistic. There are lots of kids out there who don't do well on the SAT's. Remember the true average score was around 1000 (or 1500 on the new SAT.) So either those kids are not on college conf, or they do not make themselves heard on the forums. It's a rare student on cc who admits that their SAT scores are within the average range. I know they are out there.</p>
<p>Overseas, now that Lawrence is dropping their test score requirement, my daughter may have to look at it again. Lawrence was one of the first schools on her list, but it's dropped way down because she can't get past the fact that it's in Wisconsin. She's grudgingly willing to stay in the Midwest if she'll be near a large city; unfortunately, Appleton doesn't qualify. It just kills me because I think she would find a lot to like about it. We're heading to Chicago in July to visit a school, so maybe I'll just "forget" to brake and keep going north!</p>
<p>I posted elsewhere but will do so again here. Daughter's May scores were almost exactly the same as her March scores. No real improvement, no major loss. Like Marny, I am kind of leaning to just letting this be it and not pushing her for another re-take (unless of course she wants to). Seems she could better spend her time this summer starting to put together her application materials, writing her essays, etc.</p>
<p>She's at or above the 75th percentile in reading and writing, at or just below the midpoint for math. (her math scores are also more than 100 points below reading and writing) for all of the schools on her list. Her GPA will be just above the midpoint. None of the schools on her list seem to put a huge emphasis on test scores, so maybe we should just let it ride, or maybe give the ACT a go-round.</p>
<p>Do you think if you score fairly consistently over two tests that a third round is worthwhile? I don't expect major increases in her math (she's lucky she got what she did on the March test), and I think she's probably maxed out on the reading and writing. </p>
<p>PS: That is VERY interesting news about Lawrence dropping test requirements. I wish my daughter would have agreed to visit Lawrence, but no dice as she doesn't want a school with the same name as HER last name.</p>
<p>Mezzomom, my son says he totally understands. He wants to do something different and Lawrence does it since he now lives in the Med and Wisconsin is a foreign country!! Hah. Hah. is what I say. Snow? What is that!</p>
<p>Carolyn, Son scored consistently on two tests and then raised score 150 pts because it was important for him to do so. A 3rd round can be very worthwhile. Give it a break!</p>
<p>I think that the key is to try to maximize your efforts where a difference can be made. The Law of Diminishing Returns applies to the SAT. However, students and parents have to be realistic about the scores earned, and the conditions under which the scores were earned. </p>
<p>For instance, one theme has been recurrent on CC: a number of students seem to like to take the test WITHOUT much preparation because they hate standardized tests. I am not sure how many students would consider taking the AP exams without attending the correponding AP classes? So why would anyone think that it could work for the SAT? No matter how one approaches the SAT, it is better to collect as many "tools" as possible. In order to tame a wild animal, one has to respect it! While there are occasional reports of students who did real well on the SAT without preparation, they represent exceptions. For most, a solid effort in practicing is required. Do not believe that the ACT will require fewer practices because it is supposedly more HS curriculum based. Some sections of the ACT a bit more straightforward, but others are trickier than the SAT. For instance, I found the verbal components of the ACT to be extremely inconsistent and riddled with dubious proposed answers. That is why people must think it aligns better with HS English! :) </p>
<p>For the ones who reach a plateau, it may be a sign that it is time to let it go, especially if the scores are in the ballpark of the targeted schools. Time is probably better spent on the remaining parts of the application. While I think that rising seniors can't do much for GPA and ranking, working on the essays and recommendations is very important. </p>
<p>Switching gears in the summer might be beneficial. Finishing the applications by early fall might in fact yield an unexpected benefit: students who plan to apply RD have a "free" SAT possibility in December or January. The regular scores are sent in a twilight timezone: too late for regular reporting but still in time for rush reporting. If everything is done, one could consider taking the SAT one last time and focus on raising the partial scores that need a boost. If successful rush the scores, if not ... you just lost $41.50 and four hours of sleep! </p>
<p>But, the same rules that apply to the SAT prep also apply to the essays: practice makes perfect!</p>
<p>Carolyn
Both of my kids jumped 140 pts between May and Oct tests.<br>
S1 May test-OK Oct +140
S2 May test-VG June test -20 Oct +140(from May)
Both accomplished this without alot of extra study, just cursory reviews of prep course materials. I think a certain amount of natural maturity often lends itself to an increase in scores from Jr to Sr years.(although girls may sometimes hit that maturity sooner)</p>
<p>I think June is a great time for SAT IIs. This is the one regret we have with S2. The Oct SAT opened up the possiblity of schools we thought were out of reach, but which also required SAT IIs which S hadn't taken. S was in that last group to have Oct scores released so we then had to scramble to take SAT IIs in Dec.</p>
<p>Yes, my son raised his scores in October. And yes, take those SAT IIs in June! Whatever you can do, do it now!</p>
<p>"I do wonder if there is any truth to statements like "Some kids just aren't good at standardized tests."</p>
<p>With the exception of kids with undiagnosed LDs, my thoughts are that the above statement is true only in that some kids aren't good at standardized tests because they don't know how to take them.</p>
<p>For instance, some kids don't do well on the SAT because they refuse to guess. On the SAT, however, if one can narrow an answer down to one of two, it's worth it to guess because one only loses 1/3 of a point for a wrong answer. One loses a full point for skipping a question.</p>
<p>Some kids also don't do well on the test because they don't pace themselves or they stay up all night the night before frantically studying. For instance, S forgot to bring a watch one time to the test, and there was no clock in the room where he was tested.</p>
<p>Some kids also don't do well on the writing part because they haven't bothered to learn about how the test is scored. They may spend a lot of time trying to figure out the correct facts to use, and may not realize that the correctness of the facts is not included at all in the scoring.</p>
<p>Northstarmom - you raise some good points. Let me also add:</p>
<p>Some kids are used to doing their best thinking in a small, undisturbed bedroom with music playing in their ear. On the other hand, the SAT is administered in a large room - either classroom or huge cafeteria - without their usual ambience, but instead, two kids tapping their pencils and at least one poor kid sniffling throught the test. </p>
<p>For some kids, the SAT is very much a test of how flexible they are in dealing with settings. Some kids can focus really well and tune out their surroundings. Others don't do such a good job with that. True, most of the kdis are used to being tested in classrooms; but even then, these are classrooms they're used to (rather than some strange school an hour's drive away), and typically the tests they take by this age are not bubble-driven.</p>
<p>To this day I remember when I took the SAT as a high schooler - there were at least 500 kids in the cafeteria with me, and the rattle of tapping pencils and popping gum still drives me bonkers!</p>
<p>do wonder if there is any truth to statements like "Some kids just aren't good at standardized tests."</p>
<p>This made me start thinking. I realized that my daughter's SAT scores are pretty consistent in terms of percentiles with how she has done on standardized test scores throughout her life. Her SAT scores also seem like what you'd expect to see from a kid with her GPA. And, in fact, that may very well be true as she is either at or slightly above the average GPA for many of the schools on her list, while her test scores are also pretty much within their ranges as well.</p>
<p>So, I think for my daughter at least, the answer is yes, certain kids tend to do about the same on most standardized tests. </p>
<p>I think Xiggi has given some excellent advice: for now, I'm going to let her "forget" about the SAT and the ACT and encourage her to start focusing on the other parts of the application over the summer. The schools on her list are not particularly numbers driven, but they are all very, very interested in recommendations, essays, EC's, and nebulous things like "personal character." So, that's where I'll suggest she focus.</p>
<p>Towards the end of summer, when she is more engaged in the other parts of the process, we can take another look at whether she wants to give the SAT another try or try the ACT.</p>
<p>Son was afraid of guessing 2 yrs ago. The problem was he defined guessing as answering if you are not positive. Husband explained to him that if you have a good idea of what the answer might be-go for it. He increased by 200 pt w/o study. The don't guess came from the "free" prep course the school offered. :( Guess we got what we paid for.</p>
<p>I think he would have done so much better if he had done the Xiggi method but I didn't get on CC till apps were in.</p>
<p>My 8th grade daughter took the old SAT in January, scoring 550V/610M. Her school offered a review course and encouraged the 7th and 8th grade g&t kids to take the new SAT this month. The review they used was based on the old SAT and my daughter scored higher on her practice tests. She went into the May SAT very relaxed since it was purely for the experience as she had already qualified for CTY and the results wouldn't be on her permanent CB record.</p>
<p>She came out of the May test pretty well wiped out. She felt it was much harder and left at least 20 questions unanswered (not for time reasons, because she didn't feel she could make an educated guess). Her scores went down, as expected. 530CR, 560M, 550W (waiting on the essay score). Unfortunately for her, she excelled at analogies on the old SAT, skipping three category five questions and getting the rest correct. The quantitative comparisons were also a strength. She's in Algebra I now, so the addition of Algebra II questions didn't help her. </p>
<p>We'll happily put the SAT away for the next three years. I hope it's been a worthwhile experience in that she's got an awareness of the stamina necessary for the test. It will be interesting to see what CTY and the other programs for middle schoolers do with the new SAT. It's a different test now, it's not just about the addition of the essay. The critical reading passages require a little more intellectual sophistication than the more straightforward reasoning ability required for analogies. The kids at the top of the heap may not see much of a difference with their results, but for smart but not genius middle schoolers, I think scores may go down a bit.</p>
<p>Momoffour, actually, your daughter scores are very consistent -and very good, as you know!. There is no real statistical difference between the two tests, especially since factoring the extra demand on the stamina of younger testers. </p>
<p>7th and 8th graders tend to benefit from having the "discipline" to NOT guess wildly. Older testers feel compelled to answer most of the questiosn and the penalties come back with a vengeance. In fact, a tester could score about 600 by avoiding all questions with a level of difficulty of 4 and 5, and answer all 1,2, and 3 correctly.</p>