<p>My D was planning to submit EA to Princeton this week. Her SAT is good, but her subjects tests (Math II & Chem), which she got the scores today, are very low.
She already sent those scores to Princeton before seeing them, btw.
So her choices are go ahead and apply EA this week, hoping they forgive the low subject score.
Or retake Subject tests in Nov, and apply RD.</p>
<p>What do you guys suggest?</p>
<p>(I'm inclined towards advising her to apply EA this week anyway, and retake the subject tests, then have them ready in case she gets deferred RD and to send to other reach schools.)</p>
<p>How low are those scores, if I may ask? My S took Math II and Biology M, and got 540 and 670, respectively. He is in a similar situation with U of Chicago EA, scores already sent. I am wondering whether he should retake them on Nov 8 and send them out anyway.</p>
<p>The worst that can happen (assuming the rest of the application is strong), is that your child gets deferred into the regular admission pile. I say go for it and get that one off the plate.</p>
<p>She should retake for the rest of her schools for certain. To be honest, those scores are VERY low. Chem is in the 4th percentile, and her Math II is in the 28th percentile. She is going to have to REALLY study to get those up, especially the Chem. If I were you, I would register her for the Dec. 6 test instead so she has time to study. Nov 8 is too close.</p>
<p>Is she strong in English? My kids did well on Lit with minimal studying because they are readers with strong CR scores. Just suggesting it in case she does have strength in that area. She could consider studying more for math and switching from Chem to LIt. Unless she had a bubbling problem…</p>
<p>Here is where you can see percentiles if you haven’t already seen this:</p>
<p>Thanks @intparent. I think you are right. Someone just showed me that table and I was like omg 4th %ile!</p>
<p>Do you think she should still take her chances on EA? I wonder if there a spot on the Princeton supp to do the “explain” thing (as opposed to the Comon App main). </p>
<p>Edit: She has to take Math & a science subj test because she’s applying to engineering.</p>
<p>I don’t know what she would “explain”… what would she say? Honestly, if it were my kid, I would not put the EA app in. I would schedule her for the Dec. 6 tests and make sure she does some serious studying between now and then (if it is any consolation, my kid when from a 640 on her first try on Math II to an 800 with some studying). And I might look at her other college list, see if there are any with EA that don’t require subject tests, and have her consider submitting one or more of those instead. Obviously timeframe is short, though, since most have a Nov 1 date. But an EA or rolling acceptance takes a lot of pressure off…</p>
<p>She already sent the low scores in though (unseen) - would it still be worth it to wait for the RD cycle?
I guess I’m wondering if the bad Subject scores are a bigger drag on her app then the pull of showng that it’s her first choice plus the advantage of being in the first batch of essays being read.
(Thanks for your input on this btw)</p>
<p>SCEA does not show that it is your first choice, honestly. Only ED (which Princeton does not have) shows that. Your risk is that the app gets put into the “defer to be nice, but we aren’t really thinking about admitting you” pile, not the “defer and really look hard at mid-term grades and additional test scores” pile. I would not rely on the strength of the essay to offset the first impression of those scores without offsetting scores right there with them. But that is just my opinion. There are certainly multiple ways to look at it. </p>
<p>I agree with @intparent. Your daughter will have a hard time getting accepted to a school like Princeton for engineering with scores like that. She will have to do some serious studying to get her scores up (particularly the math one). Assuming the rest of her application is as strong as you say it it, Harvard switched this year to SAT subject test optional so she may want submit an early app there and not submit subject tests scores. What are her SAT I scores if I might inquire?</p>
<p>Well, it seems that she just had an off day. I think taking two months to retake the test is good advice. Perhaps, she can find someone at the school to tutor her in Chemistry because it is not clear that she has mastered the basic concepts. She may want to consider taking a different subject test entirely. She seems really bright so I imagine she can do well on the SAT II math next time around but she needs to find another subject area she is strong in.</p>
<p>I don’t know about the chem, but that is a serious mismatch on the math. Was she feeling ill? Sitting next to someone who didn’t shower or was twirling their hair? Was she going through a break up? </p>
<p>She should be able to easily do much better on the math. If she is past precalc,she should review and do some practice tests to remind herself of stuff she may have forgotten if not using currently. Shouldn’t be too painful for someone who likes math.</p>
<p>Unless she has very high AP scores in math and science (5’s), I would not just toss in an early app to Princeton to see how it goes because they will see the SAT II scores and question the rigor of her school and validity of her grades (assuming they are very high). Even if she is deferred, her odds of being accepted in the regular round would be very low. She should either forego applying anywhere early or apply to Harvard omitting the subject test scores. It’s a bit late to be switching horses but honestly speaking with those two scores I just calculated that her Academic Index is 204 (that’s even assuming she is ranked in the top 1% of her class) out of a possible 240. Even if hooked (non-athlete), she would have a hard time getting in most tippy-top schools with that AI. Better to regroup and get solid scores for the RD round.</p>
<p>FWIW, Princeton had said back in 2006 that the middle 50% range of the average of the top three SAT subject test scores (I guess they required three back then) was 700-790. Your daughter’s two-score average is 555. That has got to be at least a couple of standard deviations away from the mean. I’m not trying to beat a dead horse but trying to emphasize why it would not such a terrific idea to send the app in at this time.</p>
<p>"@Falcon her SAT is M:800 CR:700 W:620 (which is ok for Princeton since they don’t consider Writing)" </p>
<p>I am curious as to where you got this information. My son is a sophomore at Princeton and to my knowledge writing was definitely considered. If an applicant wants to submit the ACT it should be with writing where it is offered as well. I tend to agree with Falcon1 on the recommendation not to apply SCEA at Princeton…instead, take the tests again and see if she can bring up her test scores significantly. If she applies early now and is rejected she cannot re-apply again for the regular round so it would be to her benefit to put forward her strongest application later if she can improve her scores. </p>
<p>It seems there is an overarching belief out there that applying SCEA drastically increases the odds of acceptance. Most people forget that at Princeton (and likely many other very selective schools), nearly one in five undergraduates is a varsity athlete and most are recruited if they are skilled enough to play at the D1 level. It’s probably safe to say that the number hovers somewhere around 200 per class. Essentially all of these apply through the early round and if they have a coaches’ recommendation, a good application and fall within the academic index, they are most likely to be accepted in that round. </p>
<p>It’s also likely that legacies apply during the early round - they made up 11.3% of the class of 2018 or about 150 students. I don’t know if Princeton has any other forms of “recruiting” (music/arts etc) but even with the examples I’ve given the number of people accepted in the early round who are entirely unhooked in these ways is likely not much different as a percentage than in the regular pool. </p>
<p>All that is to say don’t make too much of the posted acceptance rate for SCEA. </p>
<p>Thanks Falcon! I will talk to her about considering going RD.</p>
<p>Cantiger - I think the adcom during the info session said they just look at CR & M. My H & D both remember it clearly. I admit I was probably dozing off at that point (just done the tour and I wanted my afternoon coffee).</p>