SAT vs ACT- A rumor I heard

Test Preparation
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<p>Sure. Both the College Board and ACT, Inc. publish statistics on how many students in each state take their tests, and it’s easy to convert those into percentages of HS graduates. Here are the most recent figures for the ACT:</p>

<p>[ACT</a> National and State Scores for 2009: Average ACT Scores by State](<a href=“http://www.act.org/news/data/09/states.html]ACT”>http://www.act.org/news/data/09/states.html)</p>

<p>And for the SAT in a recent year (2007):</p>

<p>[SAT</a> scores by state - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-table_N.htm]SAT”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-table_N.htm)</p>

<p>Most states in the Midwest (except Indiana) and in the South Central U.S. are ACT-dominant, meaning that virtually all college-bound HS students take the ACT; typically a much smaller fraction, less than 10% in many of these states, take the SAT, and those who do take the SAT are in many cases students looking to apply to top colleges on the East or West Coasts where the SAT is dominant. Since these are often among the better students—and/or come from more affluent families who can afford to pay for the testing and have the luxury of contemplating sending junior off to an elite college far away from home—average SAT scores in many Midwestern states are among the highest in the country. But this is almost entirely a case of selection bias; the smaller pool of SAT-takers in the Midwest is heavily skewed toward top students and those from affluent families.</p>

<p>It’s a slightly different story in the SAT-dominant states on the coasts. In these states, only a small fraction of students take the ACT. But it’s a different fraction. The kids who take the ACT in SAT-dominant states are mainly those who are taking the ACT because they’re dissatisfied with their SAT scores and hope to do better on a different test—as some do. Those with the highest SAT scores—which includes many of the top students—often won’t bother to take the ACT. As a result, ACT scores in SAT-dominant states tend not to be unusually high. For example, in Maryland only 17% take the ACT, but the average composite score in that state, 22.1, is actually lower than the average composite score of 22.7 in Minnesota where 68%—virtually all the college-bound HS students—take the ACT. </p>

<p>All this contributes to a subtle or not-so-subtle perception bias. In the Midwest, the SAT tends to be seen as a test for high-achievers with high college aspirations; the ACT is for everyone else. On the Coasts, the SAT is seen as the norm, and the ACT is for those who didn’t do well on their SATs, i.e., hard-working strivers who don’t quite make the grade on the SAT which is seen as a test of native smarts. It’s all nonsense, of course. The differences in test scores from state-to-state can be explained almost entirely by selection bias and demographic factors like the level of the parents’ educational attainment and family income that are closely correlated with test scores.</p>

<p>States like Michigan where ACT testing is now mandatory for all HS juniors whether or not they plan to attend college come out looking particularly bad in state-to-state comparisons, but again, it’s almost entirely demographics. You’d bring down any state’s average scores if you included the non-college-bound in the sample.</p>

<p>Here’s a pretty good NY Times article on the subject:</p>

<p>[Why</a> the Midwest Rules on the SAT - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/why-the-midwest-rules-on-the-sat/]Why”>Why the Midwest Rules on the SAT - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>So does that mean that you are better off focusing on trying to improve your score on the SAT if applying to East Coast and West Coast schools, rather than relying on a decent ACT or retaking the ACT multiple times? For example Cornell accepts both SAT or ACT. Should my son take an ACT prep course and try to get his ACT score up to a 35 or 36? Or would his time be better spent with an SAT prep course shooting for a high score on that?</p>

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<p>the SAT is a system you have to take. It doesn’t really test what you actually know.</p>

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<p>Thanks bclintonk! Great information and great links - which led to more links…</p>

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<p>I think the only way to truly compare them would be to take the scores of people who have taken both tests and see which test they score better on. A straight-up comparison with kids who took both would be the best, and I think only, way to really compare them. East Coast v. Midwest, laws like Michigan’s… get rid of that, take the kids who took both, and compare.</p>

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<p>How are the questions themselves different on the ACT vs. SAT? Son has been getting the once-a-day College Board emails with a sample SAT question; he’s much more likely to do 5-10 of these questions at one sitting than he is to sit down with a practice test. But I think he might do better taking the ACT. He is a junior but was sick last month when the PSAT was offered at school, so we don’t have that to go on. So, just in general, what’s the difference between the two tests?</p>

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<p>The SAT tends to ask trickier questions. They’ll give a straightforward algebra problem… except you’re solving for x/y. They’ll put something in a grammar question that sounds obviously wrong… except it’ll be correct.</p>

<p>The ACT doesn’t do things like that, but it also has harder questions, so a student is more likely to run across some they just cannot do.</p>

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<p>No, if you’ve got good ACT scores I don’t think you need to take the SAT to get into Ivies or other elite colleges in SAT-dominant parts of the country. They all say they accept either test on an equal basis; they have no interest in lying about it. I think one reason Ivy-aspiring kids here in Minnesota do take the SAT is that they want to compare themselves to the enrolled freshmen at the Ivies and other top schools, which in most cases are reported as SAT scores in publications like US News. You can use the online ACT-SAT concordance to estimate a conversion of your ACT score to an SAT score, but it’s an approximation. In in some cases (e.g., my D) these kids will do a little better on the SAT than on the ACT. In any event, you don’t know which test will produce your best scores unless you take both. Finally, some top schools require SAT II Subject Tests whether you’re submitting the SAT I Reasoning Test or the ACT, and a lot of people figure since you need to take those subject tests anyway, you might as well at least familiarize yourself with the SAT system. </p>

<p>I’d say if you have a 35 or 36 ACT composite, there’s no reason to retake either test. If you’re below that you can retake and try to bump your score up a little, or plan on taking the SAT at least once and see how you do, then decide which (if either) to retake.</p>

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<p>The ACT tests to a higher level of math, but everyone says the math problems are very straightforward if you know the math. The SAT uses very basic math, but the problems may be more subtle, less obvious, or possibly include some kind of trick that you’ve got to spot. Historically, the makers of the ACT said they were testing academic “achievement” while the makers of the SAT said they were testing “aptitude.” They’ve both backed off those characterizations, though the SAT people still say they’re testing “reasoning,” as opposed to substantive knowledge. The ACT also includes a Science section which doesn’t test much for substantive knowledge but is more about your ability to interpret and draw inferences from graphs, data tables, and the like; nothing comparable on the SAT.</p>

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<p>Take the PSAT in October as a Junior and the ACT in November. Multiply the PSAT score by 10. Compare that to the ACT score based on the concordance table. If the PSAT is markedly better concentrate on the SAT. If the ACT is better or they are similar , prep for the ACT and take it again. The ACT essay is much more manageable. Practice under time pressure for the ACT though since that is what trips people up. The ACT is generally an easier test.</p>

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<p>For you. My D has always found the SAT an easier test. There seem to be about as many people on one side of that divide as on the other. </p>

<p>It’s true that the ACT tests your ability to work quickly, while the SAT doesn’t. On the other hand, the ACT doesn’t deduct from your score for wrong answers, while the SAT does.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies, everyone. He missed the PSAT back in October because he was sick, so we won’t even have PSAT scores to help us figure something out. It’s probably going to be whichever test date in the spring doesn’t conflict with soccer tournaments and other events we’re already committed to. We’ll get it done. Thanks again.</p>

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<p>By the way. A while back I posted about IQs/etc. While the scores were right, I messed up the percentiles. Just thought I’d say for anyone reading it later.</p>

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<p>I took both and they were pretty much the same with a conversion chart. My advice is just for you to just take them both and see how well you do.</p>

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<p>From personal experience I think the ACT is slightly easier just because it involves more common sense than test taking skills.</p>

<p>Not sure if people have argued this before, but hypothetically the bell curves for both tests could be the same because the people who do well on the SAT would not be inclined to take the ACT. Thus the highest scores on the ACT could all be derived from students who did well on the SAT (not get results back yet) or students who didn’t do as well as expected on the SAT and opt for the more logical (some argue easier) exam. </p>

<p>Just putting that out there w/ data to back it up, thoughts?</p>

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<p>for me ACT is more difficult.
32 ACt 2360 my sat</p>

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<p>Theoretically possible. Just as is the opposite, that more SAT-takers are people who didn’t do well on the ACT. Neither hypothesis is supported by evidence or data. Fact is, the populations of SAT- and ACT-takers are regionally skewed. The SAT dominates on the East and West Coasts, the ACT in the Midwest, South Central, and Mountain West regions. Apart from regional prejudice, there’s no particular reason to think the people in SAT-dominant states are on average smarter than those in ACT-dominant regions or vice versa. </p>

<p>There is a subtle but important difference in the two test-taking populations, however. In ACT-dominant regions, SAT-takers are heavily skewed towards high-achieving students who usually do well on both tests; that’s because pretty much the only reason to take the SAT in these states is if you’re planning to apply to elite colleges in the Northeast or on the West Coast. Even then, it’s not really necessary; for some of these school it’s necessary to take SAT II subject tests, but all accept the ACT in lieu of the SAT I, and some accept the ACT as a substitute for BOTH SAT I and SAT II. Nonetheless, kids here in Minnesota (an ACT-dominant state) like to compare themselves to the published entering class profiles of the schools they’re applying to, many of which are expressed in SAT figures for Northeastern schools. In the Northeast and California, on the other hand, most students are content to take the SAT, the dominant test in those regions, unless they’re dissatisfied with their SAT scores, in which case many take the ACT. So the population of ACT-takers in the Northeast and California, while small, may be skewed slightly lower than the population of SAT-takers. (Or perhaps not, as the ACT-takers in these states might tend to be mostly relatively high-achieving, high-aspiration HS students, i.e., likely somewhat higher achieving than the median for all students and all SAT-takers in their state, just not at the very top of the SAT scales). In any event, the combined effect of these two phenomena might possibly be to skew the SAT-taking population very slightly stronger—not because smart Northeasterners are taking the SAT, but because smart Midwesterners are. But that’s not been definitively established. Another factor: the ACT is now mandatory for all HS juniors in at least a couple of states, which brings a substantial number of non-college-bound, generally lower-achieving students into the ACT-taking population. Still, 1.5 million test-takers in each pool is an awfully large sample; the differences in the populations are probably mostly going to wash out once you get to numbers that large.</p>

<p>You should know, however, that the SAT-ACT concordance table published jointly by the College Board and ACT, Inc. is based not on percentile ranks but on a comparison of the actual scores on both tests achieved by individuals who actually took both tests. Thus the relative strengths of the two populations is pretty irrelevant. The concordance should be pretty accurate for the period it measures. It’s just not updated frequently, so the data could be a bit out of date.</p>