SCAD - NASAD Certification and fast growth concerns

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>My D (high school senior) is interested in Illustration. SCAD is on the short list, but I have 2 concerns:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Their lack of NASAD certification has me worried that she would have trouble transferring (if needed) or with grad school apps. Does anyone have experience that would validate or negate this concern?</p></li>
<li><p>They have grown very fast. I worry that they have grown faster than quality programs can keep up with. Has anyone seen evidence of them being overextended?</p></li>
</ol>

2

<ol>
<li><p>They are accredited by SACS. I don’t know why SCAD does not have NASAD accreditation, but they like to do things their own way. Having attended SCAD and worked at SCAD for 14 years, and having attended and worked at schools with NASAD accreditation, I saw absolutely no cause for concern. </p></li>
<li><p>There are no issues with transferring credit or applications.</p></li>
<li><p>They have grown at an amazing pace, has this hurt them in some ways? Yes. It exaggerated their growing pains, but things have stabilized very well over the past ten years. You need not worry.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t think SCAD’s Illustration department is on par with some other schools, but if everything else about the school falls into place, it is still a good choice.</p></li>
</ol>

3

<p>I can’t speak regarding their Illustration major, but my daughter is a sophomore at SCAD right now (graphic design, minor in advertising) and I have to say that we are very impressed with the school and facilities.</p>

<p>Our daughter seems to be thriving there; we’ve seen an explosion of her passion and creativity in those surroundings and she has adjusted very nicely to living so far from home.</p>

4

<p>Thanks RainingAgain and msmayor for your insights. I feel better about keeping them on the list.</p>

5

<p>Don’t feel so great; I was beginning to become a SCAD believer when I read a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education about them. It seems that Paula Walace, one of the founders of SCAD, gets a whopping 1.9 million a year in compensation. Even the Chronicle had problems with this high income for this size of school. One reason they don’t like this is that this drains resources away from scholarships, facilities etc.</p>

<p>More troubling is the fact that SCAD set up a for-profit corporation that drains money out of it in fees and consulting. Thus, although they are technically a non-profit, the Chronicle certainly implied that they operate similarly to a for-profit school. </p>

<p>Read up on the latest issue of the Chronicle of Higher Education about them. It wasn’t that beneficial to SCAD.</p>

6

<p>Read the article. In all honesty, I am not nearly as knowledgeable in salary levels for college educators/deans/administrators…nor am I well-versed in the politics of a non-profit school vs. a for-profit school.</p>

<p>But with my eyes I have seen the integration of SCAD into the fabric of Savannah life. I have seen personal growth in my daughter that I directly attribute to her presence at that school (which I agree could have happened anywhere…just so happens it was here). The visiting lectures she’s had the opportunity to go to have expanded her ideas of where to find her career path. The care and concern the student adviser has shown to my daughter indicates to me that they WANT her to succeed. </p>

<p>Expensive school? You betcha. But for my money the reputation and professional contacts our daughter will get are priceless, and if the statistics for graduates plays out as they say, she’ll be employed in her field of study within 6 months of graduation.</p>

7

<p>Thanks, taxguy. I have found your posts to be helpful and grounded in fact. After reading the article you reference, I feel I have facts to support what my intuition was telling me. The $1.8 million comped founder also employs her husband, mother, son, daughter and daughter in law at the school. I find that odd. The Chronicle of Higher Education 9/29/10 says of founder Paula Wallace’s $1.8 million 2008 compensation “That amount tops the compensation of all but a handful of college chiefs. But SCAD, a relatively pricey and prosperous art school, is smaller than universities that pay in that range.”</p>

8

<p>SCAD definitely has this evil corporation-set-on-taking-over-the-world vibe going on sometimes, but in my experience that doesn’t mean they treat their students poorly. Sure, Paula gets paid, in my experience SCAD is very generous with both giving lots of small scholarships to almost everyone as well as giving out quite a few big full tuition merit scholarships every year which most big name art schools don’t do at all. And SCAD’s tuition is currently cheaper than Pratt, RISD, Parsons, MICA, Ringling & SAIC to begin with. SCAD’s offer of more than twice as much scholarship money than any other school made my decision very easy and I haven’t regretted it yet.</p>

9

<p>You want to go toe to toe again Taxguy?</p>

<p>Basically every anti-SCAD argument you presented the past few years has proven to be either irrelevant or false, and we now have the testimonials of many SCAD students and parents on this board which directly contradict your irresponsible dispersions. </p>

<p>Students receive an outstanding education at SCAD, and I challenge you to find better facilities at any private art college, or one that is as generous with merit, need, and portfolio-based scholarships. While it is pricey, the cost is reasonable if not cheaper when compared to other art colleges.</p>

<p>You also need to understand that SCAD was a family investment and effort by the Poetter family. Paula, Richard (former husband and school president), Pam Wallace, and their parents (the Poetters) started the school in an abandoned 3-story building, painting the walls and sanding the floors themselves. Whatever they earn, they earn because of their cooperative visions and efforts.</p>

<p>As a graduate, former staff member, and former professor at SCAD, I was treated with kindness, dignity, and was paid well myself. Not only did I enjoy the standard benefits, but the Poetter family also shared their profits with the staff and faculty via a profit-sharing program.</p>

<p>You embarrassed yourself the last time. I presumed you backed off for a couple of years because you came to the realization that SCAD provides an outstanding education to students at more than a reasonable cost, and one that prepares them for success in their chosen professions. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that the focus of the administration is upon the best interests of the students and adhering to the school’s mission statement:</p>

<p>“The Savannah College of Art and Design exists to prepare talented students for professional careers, emphasizing learning through individual attention in a positively oriented university environment.”</p>

10

<p>/// …he $1.8 million comped founder also employs her husband, mother, son, daughter and daughter in law at the school. I find that odd…///</p>

<p>SCAD was the brain child of Richard and Paula (Poetter) Rowan. The college was established in the late 1970s. </p>

<p>Paula’s parents - including May Poetter - helped to finance the college. Paula’s sister Pam was also a founding member. It was a family effort financed by family money and bank loans. The Poetters purchased an abandoned 3-story building in Savannah (now called Poetter Hall), and renovated it themselves in time for classes with just a few dozen students attending the first year. May Poetter, Paula, and sister Pam have been employees of the college from day one. </p>

<p>Richard Rowan - Paula’s first husband - was named President of SCAD. He was initially the visionary for the college. Paula was the provost, and I believe May Poetter was in charge of admissions. I don’t know what Pam Poetter’s title was in the beginning - but again, she was with the college from day one. Let’s remember that.</p>

<p>Fast forward a couple of decades…Richard and Paula Rowan separated and divorced. Paula retained the college and Richard went elsewhere. A couple of years later Paula married the existing Director of Building Management (something like that), Glenn Wallace, who had been employed by SCAD for a number of years already. When May Poetter stepped down from Admissions, Pam Poetter took her place as VP of Admissions.</p>

<p>Richard and Paula Rowan had a son and a daughter. The daughter attended SCAD, and was very fond of horses. No doubt this is why SCAD has a fine equestrian program, and she competed in horse jumping competitions. I’d bet my last dollar she is presently in charge of the program. Anyone have a problem with that?</p>

<p>The son attended a school in Europe (I think) to become a chef. Eventually (+/- 5 years ago) he was hired to manage the small cafe across from Poetter Hall. I have no idea what he does presently, but it probably has something to do with food service. Anyone have a problem with that? Presumably the son married, and the daughter in law is employed by the college as well. I have no idea in what capacity.</p>

<p>Is all of this appropriate? I don’t see any issues. There are many family-run ventures in the U.S. SCAD’s attendance has grown from a few dozen students the first year to 6 or 7 thousand. Why? Because of the efforts of the Poetter family. They deserve every penny they make. How many Presidents of other colleges were also the founding members of the same college?</p>

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<p>Please don’t resurrect online disagreements on behalf of my questions. I had concerns. I was looking for information from this forum. I now feel I have the information I need. Thank you all for your opinions and data.</p>

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<p>RainingAgain, I simply cited the Chronicle of Higher Education’s article about SCAD. Again, you falsely interpret my statements. If you have a problem with all this, don’t knock the messenger. You should write the Chronicle of HIgher Education and address their concerns with SCAD.</p>

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<p>Taxguy – you have posted similar information in the past regarding the President’s salary, and I provided a similar response.</p>

<p>Your agenda is clear. I’ve noticed that you jump into other college forums and threads regarding SCAD, why? What is your obsession?</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=174579[/url]”>http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=174579&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You have never visited SCAD, and seen firsthand what SCAD students get for their money. </p>

<p>Nor do you know the history of the college and how the Poetter family built it from its very foundation.</p>

<p>Also, if you cite an article, you need to clearly delineate the citation from the rest of your post.</p>

14

<p>Rain, thanks for the backstory on SCAD. I didn’t even know they had a equestrian program, that was interesting. </p>

<p>As for the merits of SCAD, as my D’s art teacher told her, “Not every school is right for you and you are not right for every school”. Every school has its merits and its downsides and people see them in different ways. What I consider a merit, someone else might consider a downside. It all boils down to what is right for each individual.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>This is so true…for every school, not just an art school.</p>

<p>Every school has a personality, a “vibe” if you will, and all things being equal with the quality of education, a student could thrive at one and be miserable at the other. </p>

<p>MICA is often mentioned here as a great school and I’m sure it is…but when my daughter and I visited she just didn’t ‘feel’ it. She couldn’t see herself there in those particular surroundings. </p>

<p>Our visit to SCAD? We were there two hours and she turned to me and said “Mom, I can totally picture myself here!!” She felt a connection, and therefore that’s where she landed.</p>

<p>redbug, I was amazed when I learned of the equestrian program. Even more so when I saw the facility they have; it looks beautiful and students have the ability to board their own horses there.</p>

16

<p>TaxGuy, I have to admit as an impartial observer, you seem to have an obsession with casting dispersions on SCAD. What is your history with them?</p>

17

<p>Some thoughts from the ‘front line’ of the SCAD Fashion Department from an insider with experience at other Universities. There is no Chairperson - nobody wants the job. The Dean is new and inexperienced in education and design - clueless. There is difficulty keeping profs. 3 good ones left this past year and haven’t been replaced.
Aside from the flashy visitors, the connections to NYC are zero. Not what they are at FIT / Parsons and Pratt. The placement person is useless. Half the profs are excellent and the rest going thru the motions - of the remaining ones - all have no current connection to the fashion world. Half have their Masters degrees from SCAD. You are on your own getting an internship. Job placement figures they quote are a lie. Because of the open admissions - classes are dragged down by the less talented and lazy… The most recent industry collaboration with Malandrino and Posen was a disaster.<br>
Some of these problems are common to any institution, others are uniquely SCAD.
My take is that the higher the visibility of the department the more Paula meddles which ultimately filters down to the classroom.</p>

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<p>///…My take is that the higher the visibility of the department the more Paula meddles which ultimately filters down to the classroom. …///</p>

<p>Provide examples, and perhaps how it became a problem, thanks. By doing so, you can establish credibility.</p>

<p>As far as internships go, you are correct in that SCAD cannot possibly have the connections schools like FIT have, but as per “being on your own” - I don’t have a problem with this. While it may make the process a little tougher and not as “nurturing”, it puts students in the same position they will be in once they graduate, and helps them develop job-finding skills. I saw many students obtain high-profile internships (MTV, NFL, etc) on their own in my department.</p>

<p>If you are a student, you have every right to voice your concerns about faculty not pulling their weight, and be sure to fill oput your evaluations honestly. As a faculty or staff member, you might want to approach the Chair(s), the Dean (okay - he’s a newb), and possibly Tom Fischer. Tom’s a good guy, very approachable, and very student-centered.</p>

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<p>Part 2…</p>

<p>///…Job placement figures they quote are a lie…///</p>

<p>Job placement figures are not “a lie”. They are technically accurate, but they also can be deceptive by the nature of the data collection process. SCAD uses the same methodology(ies) and standard operating procedure(s) as every other school in the country. So, I’d be wary of ALL job placement claims at ALL schools.</p>

<p>Take a gander at this law student’s complaint, "An anonymous student posted an open letter to the dean of the law school at Boston College with an interesting offer: He wanted the school to keep his degree in return for a refund on his tuition…He said he was “resentful at the thought that I was convinced to go to law school by empty promises of a fulfilling and remunerative career” – tampabay.com</p>

<p>Open Letter to Dean: [Open</a> Letter to Interim Dean Brown|EagleiOnline](<a href=“http://eagleionline.com/2010/10/15/open-letter-to-interim-dean-brown/]Open”>http://eagleionline.com/2010/10/15/open-letter-to-interim-dean-brown/)</p>

<p>Let’s say 100 students graduate from a department. A year later surveys are sent out to determine placement and satisfaction. 60 students return the forms and 40 indicate they are employed. SCAD and all schools will use that data to tell you that 2/3 of students have found employment, and based on the returned data, that is accurate. But really, the schools only “know” that 40 of 100 students have jobs. Who knows what the status of the missing 40 graduates is? No one.</p>

<p>Or…</p>

<p>Many schools rely on the self-motivation of alumni to voluntarily update their status post-graduation - often on a Web site. Again, the percentages can only be tabulated based upon data collected. In this case, my best guess is that only students who have done well are likely to post their status. Who wants to post that they have “failed”? Though the results are “accurate” this method is likely to sway the data significantly, and is probably least representative of the true placement rate.</p>

<p>While I was at SCAD, I think the placement rate advertised for Graphic Design was 92%. Was this a lie? Based on collected data, no. But do I think 92% of all G.D. graduates found relevant work in G.D. No way.</p>

<p>Also…</p>

<p>Let’s say the school collects data for their Graphic Design program. One student responds that he/she works at Kinkos printing whatever. Another student responds that he/she is a Junior Art Director with Leo Burnett. As far as the data is concerned, both have found employment. Few - if any at all - schools are not likely going to tell you about of the quality of the jobs students have obtained. </p>

<p>All schools use one of the above methods as far as I know. If I were an applicant researching colleges, I would be very aggressive in trying to ascertain how data is collected. Admissions representatives aren’t going to know jack squat about the process. Prospective applicants should politely bug the Alumni Administrators. It may require some digging, and some schools may balk and not answer your questions. I’d also ask about graduating class sizes, and then review alumni pages to see how many have their actual status’s posted online.</p>

<p>Which reminds me, I need to update mine to Pumpkin Picker. ;-)</p>

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<p>RainingAgain is a shill for SCAD posing as a ‘reasonable’ person. Amazing. Another reason SCAD is mediocre.</p>