My grade 8 son had discussions with his English and Math classes today about choosing honors. In English, they were told that 5 percent would go in the lowest level, and 5 percent in honors. Does that 5 percent honors seem a bit low to you? (We’re in a high performing suburban public.) In math, the teacher said half of his class is now in honors and by grade 12 it will only be 50 kids (out of 400.) Also stressed that dropping down from honors will screw up their schedule. Is this typical? I certainly understand that they don’t want unqualified kids trying honors, but it seems to be a hard sell against honors. Thank you!
Our schools sound similar, and yes that 5% into honors english sounds low. For Math, there is a track and dropping honors would mess up that “track” but I wouldn’t say it screws up the schedule, it just would change the options. And maybe they mean that the numbers get low because kids are in APs?
Maybe the counselors do give a hard sell against honors to the kids, to mitigate against kids overreaching and not really knowing what they are getting into…they are eighth graders after all. But perhaps the messaging is different when they are making individual recommendations to each student (hopefully your school does this, ours does, and their recommendations seem to be right on).
I’m also a believer in starting Freshman year not being overly aggressive on Honors because a low GPA can be hard to bring up, and you can always add more honors over time once you see how the student is doing in high school and in individual subjects.
That sounds really low to me. Sounds like they’re trying to decrease their numbers of honors kids to make it seem more prestigious or work some other number for the school. That doesn’t mean the classes got any harder if you’re capable of it to begin.
I’d sign up for honors from the get go. It may be harder to get into later. Part of honor’s classes is getting into the routine of harder work. It’ll be easier if you start early.
Our public school has 40% of students in honors classes. That is way too many. The top students aren’t given any challenging work. The school counters with the argument that not everyone earns an A grade but that doesn’t prove that the students learned anything at all over the course of the school year.
Five percent seems really low but it could be appropriate depending on the school district.
Did your child take written notes of the presentation, or did he bring home anything written about the numbers? If he is repeating what he remembers hearing, you might not be getting an accurate report of what the counselor or math teacher said. Even if the words are accurate, his interpretation of their intent may not be. For example, the figure of 50 out of 400 still in honors math at the end of senior year can mean a lot of different things - wild estimate based on what that teacher remembers hearing at a staff meeting, 100% accurate report because that teacher has carefully tracked all of his students over the last 10 years, and consistently no more than 50 per year have made it through the honors system, the math department only allows 50 in senior honors and so makes deliberate cuts along the way, etc.
So, talk with the counselor, math teacher, and English teacher yourself. Get some clarification. Get their specific advice about your specific child. If possible, have your child talk with other students a couple of years ahead of him who have taken the honors sections so that he can form his own notions of whether or not those classes are for him.
Our public high school is like that. They make it so hard to get into honors in 8th grade and then if you make it (my son did for math) they try really hard to weed you out. I don’t get it. I think they think they’re being prestigious with this.
Sounds like a presentation to the average student to me. I wonder- does his middle school have any honors/advanced sections? Is your son in the average/regular classes now? By 8th grade I would expect current math to be either regular or algebra, not an honors/regular decision for HS. Some schools may not offer differentiated English at this level (sigh). A discussion with the guidance counselor and/or teacher is in order.
One factor for kids at the line between regular and honors would be motivation. Some will rise to the challenge and others will be better off/relieved they don’t have to struggle to keep up. My sister was on the line for math and English- she did 8th grade algebra (thankfully because I was one year behind her and was definitely honors material) but she did regular English.
btw- if we followed the generalized recommendations for middle and HS gifted kid would have wasted so many semesters with a study hall. He finally got one his senior year final semester when he ran out of interesting classes to take (I think he also had his worst grades). No one size fits all.
I have a D23 who just did scheduling for freshman year. We didn’t hear percentages but she certainly came home feeling like honors classes might be “too much” even though she has excelled in advanced classes in middle school. I’m not sure what was said that caused her to feel that way but I was surprised. She was recommended for Honors by her current teachers so it seems like the message came from the high school presentation, not her current teachers.
We have three middle schools feeding into one high school. I too remember how Honors was presented as something extraordinary, I.e. “proceed at your own risk”. D was allowed to take geometry in 8th grade, my friend’s son (smarter than D when it comes to math) had to take standard algebra due to space limitations. In HS, D went into trig, friend’s son had to take geometry for some silly reason. He ended up taking both trig and pre-calculus honors at the same time sophomore year in order to “catch up” and take BC junior year with plans for multi-variable calculus senior year. For reference, D is taking AB junior year, BC senior year.
Bottom line, I thought their Honors placements were completely screwed up and also thought maybe HS was saving more “spots” from two other feeder middle schools. Just ignore the politics and let your son try out Honors classes if he feels up to it 
5% being allowed into honors sounds low.
If it is generally a high performing school district, consider that the administrators might be trying to maintain some integrity in the system. Over the years, we saw the schools in our very wealthy and highly ranked district progressively eliminate all possibility of tracking in anything but math, and even in that subject the options were reduced and slowed down.
Why? Simple. The parents were agitating like crazy to get their kids into honors in the humanities or the “double accelerated” math track starting in 4th grade. Wouldn’t accept that their kid wasn’t smart enough. After a while, the district gave up fighting and eliminated all tracking except for one grade acceleration in math open to about 25% of the class, starting in 6th grade (we have subsequently heard that it now starts in 7th).
Perhaps by setting the bar so high by restricting to 5% the OP’s school is trying to discourage parental agitation for the smart but not exceptional kids.
What IS honors math for a senior? (5% quote). Is honors because the school doesn’t do AP or IB?
I’m really not sure what is meant by “honors math.” I checked with a friend’s son who says there are 200 kids in either Calc AB or BC so…who knows. I do think kids are tossed in who aren’t up to it. The only thing tracked in grade 8 is math and my son is in Honors Math. They have very challenging tests and a few friends, he says, probably should not be in there. I understand parents can be crazy but I’m not sure I understand why they would psych out the kids.
Agree that you really need to talk to the guidance counselor. You need a better understanding of what was said at the presentation, what the tracks are, and what is expected of the students. In our district there is a huge gap between the speed at which material is presented in advanced and honors math. The GCs are so focused on making sure kids don’t over-reach, they tend to forget that kid placed in a class that requires no effort are not learning the study skillls they will need in college.
In our district, for senior year there is not really “honors” math, but the top math level would only apply to the kids in Calc BC and the few GT kids that are in math past calculus. I would guess that is less than 50 kids out of about 400. However, a much larger number take AB calc as seniors.
In English, our district does not offer honors to freshman, but does as they move up. I would guess it is 2 classes so maybe 50 to 60 students out of 400 or 10 to 15%.
Also, are there only two tracks in English - honors and college prep?
In my experience, there can be a huge disconnect between what the middle school and high school advises. If I were you, I would speak to a HS GC. They will be better able to tell you expectations for the various levels. They can also outline the tracks/prerequisites for various classes. For example, our HS requires Honors Geometry freshman year as a prerequisite for Honors Chemistry sophomore year - no one at the MS advised us of that.
Honors and AP classes are also grade boosters for college. Not starting them now can limit what you may be able to take later on as Happy4u advises.
Our school district doesn’t have “Honors” classes anymore. in middle schools It’s all PreAp and Regular along with select High school credit classes offered to 8th graders who qualify. I have twins in 8th right now and my eldest is in 10th. All 3 have done straight PreAp since 6th grade (2 of my boys are in the Gifted and Talented program) and the twins are taking Algebra 1 for math in middle school which is a high school credit class. All 3 of my boys made it through middle school with straight A’s without major effort or stress. I feel they are prepared to enter into AP classes freshman year. For 9th grade, our district offers 2 AP classes (AP Bio & AP World Human Geo).
The tracks are basically 3 - college placement, advanced college placement and honors. My son is in honors math now and I expect he will stay there. Science often goes along with that so I’m assuming those two are where they should be. The question is english and history. He is less naturally skilled here and after some worries about his writing I started him with a tutor who is a former middle school teacher. This teacher said he would be ok in honors. I am wary of accepting their recommendations because I get the distinct feeling they are trying to shake kids out. Funny enough, this scare talk seemed only to motivate my son!
It is tough call. If honors in English and history is truly only for the top 5% or so of the students (20 out of 400), that is a pretty limited group. I would get more information from the guidance counselor. If you honestly think your son could handle it, and he is willing to do the work, I would perhaps let him try in 9th grade and then take it from there.
Does the school have feeder of G&T kids that your kid isn’t part of? The honors classes still need to be filled, a HS English class of 20 kids sounds unlikely for a public school. It is still a numbers game. Again, the bright kids will be in APs for many or most jr, sr, some soph classes. Get on your HS web page and look a the pathways, the school profile, the AP offerings and go to a parents presentation and even make an appointment with a HS counselor for a chat and a visit to the school. Is this school selective? I can’t tell you how many presentations my kids’ schools had for parents and this was public school in the lowest educational funding state in the US. IMO this is where you help align your kid’s peer group for academic expectations.
I think in 6th and 7th grade you really need to know your child and what they can handle and try to project what position they want to be by the time they are in 12th grade, because it is very difficult to change things once they get on a track. That includes working with the teachers but also know the situation at the school as to how impacted the honors classes are. My daughter had a few friends move to a private school because the school would not put them in honors classes, others who pushed and won to get their kids in honors that probably shouldn’t be. There is a lot of jockeying for position and it is important to be informed.
I too felt that the tone of the teachers and administrators from 5th grade on was to discourage the honors track, probably because they had this pressure from parents advocating for their child, but your child might misinterpret the level of difficultly for them and be scared away from taking classes they are equally prepared to take.