Scaring Grade 8 Kids Out of Honors?

Our middle school used to have only one class of 8th graders they deemed ready for algebra. Then I think they talked to other districts and got a lot of flak from parents who were not happy about their kids getting frozen out and suddenly they decided twice as many kids were ready. Middle schools, in particular, seem very cautious about accelerating kids. It was maddening for our oldest. He could easily have done algebra in 6th grade, but it was like pulling teeth to get him accelerated to 7th grade honors math. Teachers and administrators know a lot, but they don’t know everything.

Dealing with this issue with our 8th grade D. I went with the teacher recommendation for regular 6th grade math. Her 7th grade math teacher said to move up to the higher math class for 8th grade (only 2 levels in middle school). She got an A 1st semester and says she is in the top 1/3 of the class. Very conscientious student. Teacher recommended her for middle track (regular geometry) based on low MAP score. Her math MAP scores have been very inconsistent-- D said she struggles with it being on the computer. No trouble with reading MAP test on the computer–she was recommended for honors English and honors Biology based on high reading scores. I looked up her PSAT 8/9 scores–she had 98-99% in both reading and math. I think she is able to do honors geometry–4 of my older kids who went through this high school did it–including her closest sister who had a much lower PSAT 8/9 math score, but got As in the class. I don’t think there is a lot of difference in the homework/curriculum. Honors is weighted, though, and the better students will be in honors. The teacher has to sign off if the kid registers for a class beyond what is recommended, though. D doesn’t think the teacher will sign. She is very quiet/introvert, doesn’t want to approach/“disagree” with the teacher. Should I point out PSAT scores? Not sure if it is worth the effort to argue. (Fwiw, teacher is inexperienced, 2nd year, everyone complains about her–class is chaotic.) Both tracks can lead to Calc AB. Maybe D could sign up for regular geometry and switch when she gets to the high school? Any thoughts?

YES!! I have FAR less information on my son’s ability than you @atomom. I absolutely would. As a side note, my small Catholic school back in the day tried to keep me out of honors math. I ended up in the 99th percentile and attended an Ivy on a math scholarship.

@atomom, what do you mean…sign up for regular and switch when she gets to high school? That sounds harder than working on it now, due to scheduling. Maybe you should ask the 7th grade math teacher who seems to have the best idea of your DDs capabilities. Then, approving he/she says to go for honors, present that info to the 8th grade teacher with the request for signing the form.

TS-- there are many sections of geometry, and people are more likely to switch down out of honors to regular geometry, so there will be spaces. I thought of it as a way to avoid dealing with 8th grade math teacher. D said students wrote down which section they wanted to be in and the teacher called her up and in a loud whisper told D that she couldn’t do it and was surprised at D’s choice because she “doesn’t know this stuff,” which embarassed D in front of the class. (She is not a good teacher, imo.) I don’t get it because D did get an A in the class.
Good idea to ask 7th grade teacher --who really liked D, said she was a “model student,” emailed several times to praise her performance.

Off the cuff, I would guess that about 30% of freshmen at DD’s (fairly large) high school start in an honors class of some subject or other. That being said, DD has seen at least a couple kids in each of her honors classes leave, presumably moved down to on-track level classes. Her teachers have made it clear that those holdouts getting Cs or below are not likely to be placed again in honors next year. So they start with a high percentage in honors, but by senior year it is probably more like 20-25% in an honors or AP class of some type, but as few as 5-7% in the most challenging classes (Calc BC or MVC, Physics C, etc.).

That’s the way it should be IMO. Everyone who has the potential to do well is given the opportunity, and it is better to know sooner rather than later if it is going to be too much to handle or not.

They were placed based on junior high grades, 8th grade teacher recommendations and PSAT 8/9 scores. So a parent can argue to move their kid up, but they need to make a strong case because they are arguing against three clear data points. Although I know it happens, I didn’t hear of crowds of parents trying to get their kid into honors when they really don’t belong there. Much of the lobbying, as far as I could tell, was parents trying to keep their kids out of remedial classes into on-level classes.

@mathmom - Our dd’s middle school was the same - only one accelerated class per subject…there were 350 students in the class year so you had to be top 30 to get in. Many parents whose kids were 31-50 left the district for private school. They have since changed that but it created not many kids ready for advance coursework in HS.

Interesting how different school districts can be. Our town has one middle school and one high school, and they seem to coordinate closely. I believe roughly half the freshmen in my daughter’s year at high school had already done algebra 1 in middle school. Not all of them went into honors geometry though, many did regular geometry in 9th grade. Honors placement is based mainly on scores and teacher recs (but I think the teacher recs are largely grade based).

Our school relies heavily on the 8th grade teacher recommendation. The advanced junior high track starts in 6th grade and is based on elementary teacher recommendations. Obviously kids change so not everyone in the accelerated track necessarily gets the recommendation for honors in HS.

The high school will let almost anyone register for honors however they are very clear that if you do not have the honors recommendation from the 8th grade teacher you will not be allowed to drop to the regular class. This is most likely a scare tactic to keep those just looking for the weighted GPA boost from registering for honors when the evidence is not there. I know many register for honors anyway and based on what my son has seen many struggle mightily. My son is having no issues and constantly talks about friends that are getting D’s and F’s and he can not understand why. I think the reason is they did not have the recommendation.

In my mind it would be smarter for the school to limit the registration and not put kids behind the 8 ball based on over aggressive parents but the school is one of the top in the state so maybe they know more than I do.

I think my school system is different. There is no limit to number of kids taking honors in 9th grade or the number of honors classes. However there are no AP classes available for 9th graders. My kids attended a smallish k-8 school with the same teachers for grades 7&8. Basically students who predominantly earned As in a core class got recommended for honors and B students were highly recommended to do honors since it is easier to drop down than move up. The 8th grade teachers give recommendations. If there are questions they will meet with parents along with a guidance counselor.

My daughter is in 9th grade doing well in all honors. It seems like the vast majority of kids end up in the right level but there are always who don’t. I know a girl who was easily capable of Spanish 1 honors who took cp and now claims she is bored. Honors teachers have the authority to have guidance switch a kid at any time from honors to cp but I don’t know how often that happens.

Our 8th grade classes no matter what level do not count towards high school - if anything they are used for placement but not for credit.

DD’s HS (private) placed students based on entrance test results. If parents protested, the students were given another test by the 9th grade teacher. IMO, they were spot on where they put kids.

Our middle school teachers recommend placement in the limited honors courses for ninth grade (English, math, and science only). I believe students can self-select into Honors even if they are not recommended but I’m unsure. I’m focused on trying to keep my D from opting OUT of honors.

However, my major issue with our schools right now is the math program. My D23 is in advanced math this year (about 15%-18% of the 8th grade are placed in advanced math). Advanced math is called Topics in Algebra but apparently most kids are recommended to take Honors Algebra in 9th grade after completing this class. Apparently there is a placement test given in April that most students fail to pass to move on to Geometry. So currently my D is recommended for Honors Geometry but is sweating this placement test. It seems crazy to me that the majority of advanced math students should have to repeat Algebra in 9th grade.

Anyone else have this structure?

Also, is anyone else hoping a Parents of the class of 2023 opens soon?

I think we have too many kids taking honors and then especially AP classes. I suppose some kids might be told no, but I think they just get a recommendation but can choose to sign up for whatever they want. Every year my kids have a friend in one of their honors or AP classes who is clearly in over their head struggling to get a C in the class. About 1/3 of the class I think starts out on the honors/AP track. I am guessing the number is substantially smaller by senior year. My oldest worked hard and got A’s and B’s on the honors track, but then kind of switched off towards the end of HS and coasted with A’s and A+'s. For what he wanted to do it worked better for him. I know some of his friends didn’t do that but should have, and their grades reflected that.

It was more difficult to get into the higher track in middle school than high school. Our elementary was a disproportionately high performing school for our middle school. But each elementary only got X number of slots for the advanced English track. Fortunately after 6th grade I was able to get all of my kids moved up based on their test scores and performance. They have since changed this I think. Math everyone took the same thing in 6th grade, and then based on a test late in 6th grade you either went into 7th grade math or skipped it and took 8th grade math as a 7th grader, with Algebra I in 8th grade. The cutoff is 1/3 advanced, 2/3 regular track. I have no idea how difficult it is to switch, all my kids were in the higher track for math.

My kids took algebra 2 freshman year (Algebra 1 in 7th, geometry in 8th), my sophomores are taking honors pre calculus this year, AP calc next year). It’s the highest math track, but lots take it.