Agreed. Not to mention the covid-19 CDC cleaning recs are pretty much the same as the ones for influenza season.
Funny, I would foresee a huge class action settlement at most/many schools starting in the late Summer. While I am not an attorney, the basis would be along the lines of receiving what was implied/for purchase and also, that students have already begun something so can the college have full control over revoking a gap year that was previously offered? Or many other considerations.
I find it odd that so many on CC seem to feel like it’s take it or leave it. A good number of students and parents standing up and saying we are not going for paying the same amount and getting online education would create a groundswell.
And college administration costs have exploded in the last 30 years. Dean of this and dean of that ( which does little for teaching) has added to the rapid rise in costs. Look it up. Laying off some of the deans of X ( things which seem to have little meaning) would go a long way to making colleges more cost efficient for their consumers ( the students).
I agree with @HappyTimes2001 that some percentage of parents are going to conclude that they are unwilling to pay the usual tuition when their children are not getting the college experience they expected, and this will impact colleges, especially colleges with higher admit percentages who can’t readily replace students who decide not to enroll or to return.
I don’t agree that a class action suit will succeed. Why would it? Parents have the choice not to buy the product.
@Schadret what the preMed advising at my D’s school said was that if a college has mandatory P/F the med schools won’t hold P/F grades against the applicant. But if students have the option to take a course for a grade, it wouldn’t look so good to take a class P/F.
However, the scrubbing between customers may not have been built into the business model of many businesses, so that the less it was being done before, the more time needs to be added per customer for the scrubbing.
Imagine a college having to scrub all of the seats and desks in a large lecture hall within the 5-10 minutes between classes each hour or hour-and-a-half.
I agree that when people start down the road of take it or leave it, that’s when litigation begins. I was really hoping that some people would help come up with positive ideas.
In a lose-lose situation, everyone wants to hold on to as much of s/he had already and wants the other parties to bear as much of the burden of losses as possible. That makes lawsuits more likely. Of course, the cost of the lawsuits increases the overall losses except for the lawyers.
Would it be possible that previously need-blind colleges (ivies, duke, etc.) become need-aware, at least for the Early Decision round, since they’re losing so much money right now?
I hear that argument a lot that schools with low acceptance rates can just replace gap year students with ones who want to enroll. If a lot of full pay students want to bow out and not do remote classes, are there really students out there who would jump at the chance to take that spot and do remote class? They aren’t getting some “normal” spot. They would be getting the chance to pay a ton of money for the lesser experience and the big unknown as to what will happen for the next year.
@homerdog I think for tippy top schools, yes. The kids (and their families) on the waitlist wouldn’t be paying for a normal freshman year, they’d be paying for the chance to have that school’s name on the diploma in four years. They didn’t otherwise get that chance so might be more inclined to jump at it.
For HYPSM et al, no question about it. Probably also true for AWSP and the rest of the top ~10 LACs.
Don’t forget that <half of the students pay sticker, so most are already receiving a discount. And with the generous finaid policies of this group of colleges, attendance for many can cost less than attending the instate public flagship (which is also likely to have a bunch of online classes).
True, but the odds are that they will be back in in-person classes at least by year 3, and they also get the HYPSM parchment paper. Again, they have the same unknown about next year if they attend a local college.
(This is an easy question to answer. For many its a no-brainer.)
Yes. There’s a recent precedent in the world of boarding schools. Exeter, one of the best and the richest boarding schools in the country, changed its need-blind policy to need-aware after its $1B endowment at the time took a big hit during the 2008 financial crisis. It has remained need-aware ever since.
I mentioned somewhere recently that the Bowdoin President said that need blind could be at risk depending on the degree of financial suffering they experience. This from a school with solid financials and one of the largest LAC endowments.
I think @milgymfam is exactly right, that at some schools you pay a premium for the prestige of the name on the sheepskin. So, taking Princeton as an example because their Pres was fairly hard-line against gap years, if your student is a rising Senior and you are being told that you have to take the inferior product offered this semester or leave the school, well that’s not fair because part of the tuition expense you’ve been paying for is the name on the diploma at the end of the year. It’s like an installment payment on a product with the biggest, most worthwhile benefit coming at the end. Again, I don’t think colleges can just say we only have the ability to provide you with this inferior product and we aren’t going to reduce the price and aren’t going to do anything else to make you whole, and if you don’t like it you can leave.
So, any ideas on what else colleges can do?
Some colleges could offer a tuition discount, in addition to R&B refund, to students who choose remote learning, while charging full price for students who choose to return to campus. It helps reduce campus density.
Colleges are already planning to get creative (hybrid teaching, daily testing, contact tracing, smaller classes/lectures, small cohort breakouts, no triples in dorms, no large gatherings, etc.) so that students/families are getting more than “online” learning at their parents house.
Colleges are going to do whatever they possibly can to get bodies on campus this fall. It won’t be the normal experience but they will attempt to make it a “good” experience. They need the R&B and tuition revenue and know that their students will expect a certain level of college “experience” they are use to (sophomore - senior). Just like the new restaurant experience (less customers, tables spread out, plastic partitions, servers with masks, throwaway menus, etc.) will be different but “good enough” for many families to be willing to pay top dollar for an evening out.
I have a feeling that the colleges with the most money will provide a much better experience on campus than the colleges that are really struggling financially. For example, I love the UCs (I’m a product of one) but with an anticipated $55 billion budget shortfall due to CV, the in-state colleges will have a hard time giving new students the “optimal freshman experience”. I think the UCs recently said they cannot guarantee housing on campus now, even for freshman. I wonder how much freshman will be paying for off-campus housing in expensive areas such as Berkeley, Westwood, and La Jolla if they can even find housing!
Not fair? To me that’s like saying it’s “not fair” that I was stuck at my college, snowed in, for a week, not getting the expensive education I was paying for, because there was a snowstorm.
Even pricey topnotch schools with huge endowments don’t have unlimited money. They will do what they can do, and then say “Take it or leave it.” That’s fair. You can decide what your child will get is worth the money, or is not, and act accordingly.
You wish the coronavirus happened and your child could have the senior year you expected. Yeah. We all wish the coronavirus hadn’t happened.
The Princeton example is a good one. The basis of choosing to attend for many/most is the built-in value of the diploma ( not interchangeable with another BA/AB from any old University) That means that there is some calculus on behalf of parents and students which is built into the cost.
If colleges were businesses, they would have to have a two-tier system, one for online and one for onsite.
In fact, there are a handful of colleges which are already doing this pre-Covid. And costs are not the same for each version.
What colleges are trying to do at present is figure out how to get the maximum dollar from each student and offer the lower value online. That would be fine. Except, it’s likely to be a bait and switch at the last minute. Where the student/family pays the cost and they get something else. The college then blames the lesser value on Covid rather than returning value in the form of $$.
IF I were a trustee, I would do everything in my power to give honest value to students. It’s not the students responsibilty to bear the entire Covid burden. Let the University also reach down into their endowments and make concessions. Or let some of the Admin go until things pick up. I think many students if they got to vote on it would forego fancy gluten-free meals ( or whatever) in favor of keeping the doors open. Colleges could also close the exercise centers and save some $ there too.
Yes, I think the rising college seniors are in the worst spot of all. Some already have post-grad jobs offers, others will get them at the end of this summer’s internships, and many just want to get on with their lives.
Rising sophs and juniors on the other hand have more choice…take time off and/or transfer.
Freshman can take a gap year. If schools don’t grant leaves or gap years to all who ask, then students will have to choose…still attend, take time off and/or transfer (current students), take time off and/or reapply (frosh). Lots of schools still with openings right now, for frosh and transfers. There will be more once the June 1 deposit deadline comes and goes.
Sure they can (and they will). They will argue, rightfully, that the cost of Johnny and Suzie’s education is already subsidized, even for those that pay sticker. In other words, tuition/fees does only covers ~80% [insert your own number] of the cost of education, so in that sense everyone already receives a discount. That is “honest value.”
Moreover, you still get the same world-class researchers teaching your kids. They aren’t taking any pay cuts, so why should tuition dollars come down?
uh, no. good luck making that argument. They already said that they’ll let you know. If you don’t like the decision, whenever they make it, you can withdraw and receive a refund of any tuition paid.
[I’m extremely entertained by those that can say/think HYPSM et al puts out an inferior product if it has some/all online components for a term or two.]