I find some of these opinions interesting. Schools are trying to create a hybrid. Smaller lab sections in person but large classes online. So if your taking chemistry you will need a lab to go with that or you won’t get the full credit. Sure you can take the lab separately but who really wants to do that. So schools will have you come in person to give as much of the schooling as possible.
So people want discounts since they are not getting the full experience and education they will say. So if you get $3,000 off does that make that education any better? Sure the way of learning is different but worse? Guess that depends on the student.
I also see more kids off campus and I would check with housing at the larger schools. Rents off campus will go up due to more kids /families looking for singles.
I think the dilemma is really with freshman vs everyone else. That I get and understand. But if your a Junior /Senior you’ve been there, done that already. Now it’s time to grind a bit to get through the upper level classes (depending on major).
This Covid will /already did change industries. This won’t end next fall. There will be changes made that will be lasting. Schools will need to invest in newer technology to make some of these changes.
It looks like, out of the following attributes of a college that people here may be willing to pay for:
A. Academic content.
B. The residential college experience.
C. Prestige based factors.
that B is by far the most important for most posters, followed by C, with A only being considered as far as “does the college have ____ major?” if that.
So the loss of B makes many people here much less willing to pay a premium over the the cost of a nearby commuter university.
I get what you’re saying, but any sentiment to the effect that something “isn’t fair” rings hollow at a time when around 7 billion people are feeling like life isn’t all that fair these days.
@ucbalumnus, I think your observation is right on the money.
We are in the minority camp: A, followed by C, followed by B.
The experience is still very important, of course, but DS20 is fully comMITted (despite having much cheaper options much closer to home, including tuition-free Vandy) with zero thought given to taking a gap year even if his freshman year is 100% online.
And judging by MIT having a record yield this year, he is not alone.
As surprised as I am by this, apparently Amherst is allowing all current students to take leaves of absence regardless of what they are deciding for the fall; all you have to do is email your class dean. The non-athlete underclassmen don’t seem to be considering this unless we go online, but the groups that seem to be deciding to take a leave of absence regardless of the situation in fall are the athletes (not so surprising, because they want a full season and the seniors (very surprising, since they are so close to graduation!), because they don’t want their final year to be dominated by restrictions. As for me and my freshmen friends, however, we would want to take a leave of absence if we were fully online, but we would agree to virtually any restrictions to come back to campus in the fall.
In fairness, it is very hard for high school kids or their parents to assess meaningful qualitative differences in academic content, or whether that difference even matters to them. For those going into the workforce directly or otherwise not continuing in academic research, teaching quality may be more important than the depth of academic content offered.
So if people demand a tuition refund because classes are online and thus inferior, would they be okay with a diploma with an asterisk or a Princeton-Lite designation? If the education is worth less to them (thus the demand for a discount) shouldn’t employers or grad schools know that this isn’t a ‘real’ diploma but one that is worth less?
I think students who aren’t on campus should get credits for not being able to use the rec center and join student groups or park their cars near a dorm, but the education should be paid for in full.
@ucbalumnus I agree with your A, B, C. Except I’d add a D, which is the internships, research, career-oriented/discovery ECs. When you said B for residential college, I interpret that to mean social life.
I feel like multiple posters think I’m whining when people are having devastating consequences, and that this different college scenario is no big deal given the big picture. Like many families, this pandemic has been devastating to mine with two close relatives dying, fear for my spouse who must go out to work and is high risk, and significant adverse financial impacts. So I get the big picture.
That doesn’t change, though, that our decision to send our kid to pricey U rather than no-cost U was made on the basis of all the career oriented extras that we thought could make a significant difference in our kid’s life. For me, rather than getting money back, I’d rather have some way to get my kid those experiences that we bargained for, either by hitting the pause button for a year, or doing a 5th year, or maybe there is some other way all of our kids can get these benefits.
We are a smart group of folks. Let’s put our thinking caps on and try to think of some options. Obviously the school administrators are trying to do this too, but I’m concerned that many of them will have the take it or leave it attitude, and not hear parents/kids legitimate complaints. This attitude helps no one and will only result in litigation, whether successful or not.
@ucbalumnus B is the differentiator for S19. The schools that gave him merit still had the academic chops (A). We really weren’t focusing on prestige necessarily. While Bowdoin may have some prestige out east, many people in the midwest have never heard of it.
The bottom line is that he would be getting virtually the same online experience at Grinnell or Kenyon. We spent a long time finding the right fit for him. He chose where he felt he most fit with the students and where he preferred the location. I’ve been part of CC for a long time and wrote about his search in detail along the way. Anyone who followed knows it was a long road with a lot of apps and he was thrilled with the result.
If he were just taking class online, those other two schools that gave him merit would have worked just fine but we are paying more for the residential experience at the school he liked the best. To throw our hands up now and be like “oh well, I guess we will pay all of that money for an experience he could have had for $100k less” is ridiculous.
I do understand your concerns,m and desire for a pre COVID experience, but that world may be gone for a long time. Between a lengthy search for a vaccine and the economic devastation, life as we knew it has changed. It is likely not possible for schools to create internships during a Great Depression. It is not clear to me that the situation will improve by fall 2021, so a gap year may not help. Some poster had a kid who took a gap decade. That might work
@homerdog To be fair about the whole “prestige” thing, the top LACs are still very prestigious among people “in the know”. Grad schools, professional schools, major employers, and research professors all know about Bowdoin.
So I 100% know what your saying but the “way” Bowdoin teaches has to be different from the way the other schools you mentioned do. To me, that is why you decided to pay the fees. There is something special to get a Bowdoin education. Staying home or transferring schools to go online won’t get him the education that in your case, only Bowdoin can provide. Totally get the not being on campus experience and I would probably feel differently if my kids were not so far along. Must be frustrating.
True, but that does not mean that such factors should not be considered.
In some cases, small departments may leave some important subareas of the subject uncovered by upper level courses. This could be true in subjects like history, biology, math, and computer science. Super-advanced-in-math math majors need to be particularly careful to see if upper level (and graduate level) math offerings are sufficient for them to avoid “using up” the math department at the college under consideration.
Also, some basic features of the major may vary. For example, economics may require no calculus, single variable calculus, or multivariable calculus. How much the economics major student likes math can influence which economics department s/he may prefer.