If students can dorm together, if they are regularly tested, if contact tracing ability is robust, if isolation facility is available, and if stay-at-home orders are lifted, why couldn’t a small group of students, perhaps all wearing face masks, be together for some of these activities?
@ChemAM I hope you’re correct. I really do.
That said, if there’s no vaccine by 2021-22 then I think kids/parents/schools will reopen in-person and accept the risk. What option is there really? That said, the “new normal” part might include less sports, less gatherings, more online classes, and masks for everyone which isn’t “pretty much normal”. However, in the end I expect money to talk as it usually does. Sports and large gatherings will return…with the risks.
Any school that reduces tuition for online classes will have to answer questions like “why don’t you continue to offer reduced rate online options in the future?” Also, if online content is “less than” how much less, and how should future employers view transcripts with reduced rate (value) classes.
However, if MIT (or any other school) wants to admit that their online courses aren’t very good, they should say so.
My daughter is a rising 1st year and if her school moves online she will definitely request a gap year. Should that not be a possibility she would likely withdraw and apply elsewhere for 2021.
ASU (Arizona State) and UND (North Dakota) have both regular and dedicated online instruction for some majors. UND is more expensive for the online program. ASU costs more online for Arizona residents, but less for non-residents.
I know everyone here is saying how wearing surgical masks every day sounds horrible, but in all honesty, I think it would only suck for the first few days then you wouldn’t even notice it.
One of DS19’s favourite experiences this past year was studying in the math building with some friends. The building has whiteboards mounted in the hallways and they would all get together to work out whatever homework they were working on. Upperclassmen and grad students would often stop to encourage and help out. He’s obviously not going to be able to do that in the fall but maybe they can find someway of doing virtual group study.
@gwnorth Why is he “obviously not going to be able to do that” in fall? They will probably still allow small group gatherings
@chmcnm I think we will have that “new normal” of no sports and no large gatherings, but back to campus, this fall; and we will be pretty much back to normal with large gatherings and sports by Fall 2021. Honestly, in terms of how much money schools would lose by staying closed in fall, loss of room and board would only be the tip of the iceberg; Amherst is saying they will allow everyone to take a gap semester/year without penalty, being able to immediately return after a gap semester/year, and most students have indicated they would rather do that than do another semester online from home, so the tuition loss there would be much greater. Also, the endowment would shrink pretty drastically due to the economic downturn, and I guarantee you alumni donations are already going to decrease drastically. To top it off, Amherst has a ton of money invested in the stock market, especially fossil fuels (they have not divested yet). Even assuming a fall reopening for all colleges, they are projected to lose more money next semester and much more money in 2021 from the long-term effects of this semester. Amherst has said even assuming a fall reopening, they will still have to make some tough decisions in the 2021-2022 academic year. Most colleges can not afford to be closed next semester. I mean, think about it; Stanford and Duke have said even if they reopen in fall, they are still probably going to have to lay off some people.
From what I have read, a “mild” case of COVID19 is not mild in the traditional sense.
Not even Influenza is mild for most people: fever, cough, headache, bodyaches for a week usually, even if you don’t have secondary infection like pneumonia.
So I get a flu shot every year, even though I’m neither very young nor old.
This Coronavirus is something we have never encountered before, nobody has immunity.
People in their prime (30-50), have shared that they had a mild case (=no hospitalization, no oxygen, no ventilator), but it was two to three weeks of severe headache, backache, high fever coming and going, shaking chills. That is not a mild illness in my book.
DS’s school has announced a program for incoming first years to help them navigate the transition and connect with other students.
"The university is launching an innovative program to deliver a guided, personalized support system for first-year students, beginning this summer and continuing through their entire first year at the university.
Created as a response to the unique circumstances facing this year’s new students, Archway offers individual support by pairing each new student both with an upper year student and a coach, a professional staff member who can answer questions, provide connections with on- and off-campus supports, and help create a sense of community.
Along with connecting to their Archway coach, first-year students will also join a cohort of approximately 30 other new students with similar goals and interests, who will then be guided by an upper-year student called an Archway mentor.
Together, the coaches and mentors will provide individual and group support for navigating the challenges of being at university for the first time – whether students are at Mac in person, online or a blend of the two."
@ucbalumnus That’s kind of my point. I think that some schools are quite capable of delivering great content online while others are not. They all just need to articulate to parents/students what their capabilities are so informed decisions can be made.
I think that many schools can and will deliver great online content and should charge accordingly. Unfortunately, many are not currently capable and for them tuition reductions should be considered. But they need to be up front with why they are reducing tuition. There are big differences between schools that don’t (yet) have the the infrastructure and those that that can’t/don’t have the content.
If a school says they are reducing tuition across the board, I would ask the following questions before signing up:
- Is the class content less than what is given onsite? Why?
- Is the rigor less? Why?
- Are the psets and tests less rigorous? Why?
- Are the discussion groups not helping students? Why?
- Are profs not holding online office hours? Why?
Maybe they have 1-5 covered but there are other tuition related aspects that fall short. If so, they should be give.
The seriousness of the infection varies widely, which naturally freaks people out. It sure did me, before COVID came knocking at our door.
H had it. I had it. We are mid-50s. He had a fever for about 3 days. By Day 10 he was feeling much much better. Back to work by about Day 15. I never had a fever, although I put in impressive hours sleeping. I was feeling well enough to lift weights again by about Day 13.
We are grateful we had no complications; the bad stories we hear are very very bad…
I will be surprised if they do.
Our paper had an article on some things the different schools in the area are considering or have decided to do. Regis University is starting the semester, on campus, a week early. They will finish the semester before thanksgiving and then do finals online or take home after thanksgiving (not returning to campus). There will be no fall break or other breaks.
CU is thinking of more department cohorts where students will live and take the same classes with~30 other students in their major. They can live and eat and go to classes together. My nephew did a program like this for engineering, although the classes they did together often had 200 students in them (Calc, chemisty). There is no way for CU to give all freshmen (the majority of on campus students are freshmen) singles. They felt creating these small groups (small? 30?) would be like a family.
My daughter’s school did this (called freshman interest groups, or FIGs). Daughter was very against this and I didn’t push it. She just felt like living with 30 students and then going to class with them was very limiting. She was right. All her friends who did them HATED them. One friend moved into the sorority house after 1 semester because she didn’t like her roommate and had to spend all her time with this kid in the dorm and in 3 classes (the FIGs had 3 courses together in their major or 3 core classes).
Other schools are planning on starting on campus but want the flexibility of switching to online if conditions require the schools to close again.
My senior is going back to Michigan. Technically can graduate in the fall but wants 2 minors so he’s sticking it out
He did all his meetings for his organization, held a major conference, met with his team at work, etc online with Zoom or the like. You just adjust and move on.
The one thing that will totally suck is sports. This means more to him then online classes. ?
What does ED look like if schools are not open in October? Every LAC has thought about that.
@gwnorth – Interestingly, my D who is finishing up her sophomore year at an LAC said math was the hardest of her four courses to translate to online format. She’s a math minor and now that she’s taking high level classes where they mostly do big complex problems, it was hard to lose the in-person collaboration. She said the zoom breakouts didn’t work well b/c they could see each other but not the problems, for example. She ended up connecting with some folks separately, but I think in general just had to do more independent work. I’m sure there’s tech than can help and it would improve next go around, but I was surprised when she mentioned math being toughest to do online. Once she described why, it made sense though. High level math is collaborative!
College sports and fitness is a whole other thing. S1 is a college athlete. His sport is cancelled for next year. His rooms are situated right near the fitness center, which has a separate area for athletes. I can’t see either area being opened up in the fall. I realize that this isn’t a big deal to many students, but it sure is to him.
@57special Which sport? Div1 or Div3?