I think you may be missing the point about the “look forward” in Penn State’s classes.
The idea is that if people really want to be distanced enough and protected enough to be in a classroom, the experts in that case determined that they have to minimize one person’s face being parallel facing another person’s face.
You can think it’s silly, or unenforceable, but that’s kind of the point of the twitter quote - social distancing done correctly will make it pointless (and yet still more dangerous) compared to another semester online.
This is different from Amherst; they confirmed in an email today about the new FAQ page I summarized yesterday that any and all classes offered over the next year will also be available to students taking classes from home.
So if they end up going online straight way because of state mandated lock down, they won’t have every course ready for online? Doubt it. Every course has to have some kind of online capability, period.
They could expel them, but I think it’s more likely they would just suspend them for the remainder of the semester/year, which I believe would be a sufficient punishment to deter students from doing it; though, towards the end of the semester, they may need to continue suspension through the following semester to keep it as a deterrent.
I’m just saying that every course needs to have a backup plan from the get-go -weather its ‘live’ zoom or recorded - no matter if they start on campus or not.
How hard is it for the college IT/Comms department to set up a video camera in every class, then upload the video to the class webpage for playback. I have a few handycams from the 90s with 8mm tapes I can donate! This is the minimum ‘online’ functionality they will have to provide.
The only way any of this f2f fall 2020 instruction possibly works is if students do their very best to follow protocols and rules.
Most students at elite schools seem to have the option of remote instruction if they don’t like the rules. It’s a valid choice for many under the circumstances.
Iirc,
some of you are posting your kids have to return (if on campus instruction exists) for scholarship reasons.
We got a new email from the college this morning explaining that were available in that FAQ page yesterday, though there are two more interesting new details:
In addition to planning on bringing students back in fall to begin in-person classes on August 24, they are planning on bringing students back in spring to begin in-person classes at the beginning of February (usually starts in the last week of January).
This email sent out to all Amherst students sounds very positive and seems to heavily imply they will be letting all students who wish to do so to come back in fall.
UVA just released guidelines on returning in the fall. Not everything has been decided. Their plan is to allow students to return to “grounds”, have some in person classes (that would also be available on line), and end in person instruction at Thanksgiving.
I’m a huge fan of President Ryan and feel confident he will manage this incredibly complex and difficult situation well.
So, at this point Freshman fall semester online is probably a foregone conclusion, hopefully with Spring option still on the table if situation permits.
Curious how they will handle the financial side of it. Their internal feedback hinted heavily that online experience may have to be discounted to make it more attractive to those on the fence about it.
All in all, as difficult as the wait (and as frustrating as the overall situation) is, I am happy they are doing what they promised they would do - take as much time as possible to make their decision based on as much information as they can get their hands on.
A stark contrast to some other schools’ “start a week early and wear a mask” plans.
I agree 100%. Some of those other schools’ “plans” were spotty indeed, as well as (seems to me) reckless. I trust MIT to get it right. I thought these paragraphs from their letter were particularly sober and sensible:
"Obviously, we cannot control the trajectory of the pandemic this fall, either here in Massachusetts or in the places around the world our students call home. We also have no control over the government response. We must accept these as unknowns and be ready to adapt.
"However, we do have significant control over MIT’s ability to provide Covid-19 testing, contact tracing and quarantining. No matter how careful we all are, we must anticipate that we will face Covid-19 cases in the fall. Therefore, we want to be confident that we have the capacity to spot an outbreak quickly and limit its spread.
“Over the next few weeks, we will carefully review our assumptions about what we can successfully manage in any given period, based on what we know today. This will give us the data to decide how many students and staff we can responsibly welcome back on campus. A next step then will be to establish a set of threshold conditions that would require us to scale back or suspend operations.”
@ct1417 elevators? They are eight feet by eight feet or whatever. These classrooms are way bigger. The facing forward thing is dumb and anyone who thinks otherwise is really, really scared. The kids will supposedly be six feet away from one another. It won’t matter which way they look when they talk. Do you envision hallways with people six feet apart and looking forward at all times? It’s laughable.
@suzyQ7 There’s not going to be a big lock down again. Certainly not in little Brunswick Maine. Maybe one county or zip code in (likely) a more urban area, but I doubt that too. How is Brunswick going to all of a sudden explode with cases? Where would they even come from, especially in Nov or Dec? That’s not going to happen.
I can’t wait for August so we can all compare what’s really happening to what we think should/could happen.
In an 8’x8’ elevator, the hypotenuse is over 11’ (and the side length is 8’). How is that less distance than 6’ in a classroom?
Also, it’s not that convincing for laypeople with a competing vested interest to describe facing the same way as “dumb” when I understand the reason for it (keeping your face outside of someone else’s breath plume).
I never said an elevator was the size of the classroom. I was pointing out that NYC office buildings will enforce these use rules even for brief rides in the elevator. Spots are marked on the floor of the elevator car notifying passengers where they must stand. Arrival and departure times are being staggered and will be sent to employees via app.
There are a fair # of classroom at Yale, and I would imagine at most NESCACs, that are nothing more than a table with eight chairs around it. My son had one class with two other students. Those rooms will not be in use if school reopens, but you cannot say that the face forward rule referenced in the Penn St tweet won’t happen. You can say you think it is laughable.
I completely agree with you that passing in halls and even more so, entering buildings and climbing stairs will not allow proper distancing.
How awful to keep punishing Class of 2020 seniors. In my opinion, they are the most important group to return to campus (together). Sophomores and Juniors have a lot more options when it comes to salvaging the semester online by getting together with friends in an apartment near campus or in a desirable weather area, and Freshman do not.
That is why the commercial real estate market collapsed in NYC, @ct1417. It would take hours to get people in and out of offices using distancing. Better to work from home or rent suburban office park space. I am told many, many commercial tenants are not paying rent anymore -including one,well known law firm
posting here