School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

Parents Forum
801

@Knowsstuff I agree this will be the new normal. I do believe (and strongly hope) that colleges will allow students to come back to campus in the fall. And I do believe that a staggered move-in is a good strategy, however, I do not think making freshmen do their entire first semester online is a good idea; many freshmen already struggle a lot with transitioning to college due to a significant decrease in the lack of structure, and making them do their entire first semester online would significantly add to that. Also, it would suck for all the freshmen to have their first semester of college social life taken away from them.

That being said, I do agree that some hybrid instruction may be necessary; I have heard that many colleges are discussing moving large lectures with hundreds of students to online formats (and let’s be honest, in those classes they wouldn’t be missing much). I have also heard that many of them are discussing breaking courses up into shorter modules, so that way when a future wave of the virus hits, they could go into lockdown for two weeks and have professors teach from home for those weeks since professors are the most vulnerable (college students tend not to be affected too badly). And yes, some people will get sick, but that would still happen even if students were kept home. Shutting down colleges for the first wave was good for slowing the spread overall, but we cannot afford to shut everything down until the virus goes away (which is very far away). COVID-19 is here to stay. We have to adapt and implement strategies to slow the spread and risk of infection on college campuses for fall and beyond.

802

MODERATOR’S NOTE: Please stay on topic. This is not the thread for general posts about COVID-19. They need to be specific to school issues. I’m deleting quite a few posts.

803

Perhaps with the latest revisions to the estimated projections, it is more likely that campuses will reopen on time and in person. The new numbers look promising.

804

I think that we are in for a very long period of contingency plans, uncertainty, and patchwork solutions. I cannot imagine a one-size fits all approach. A public university in Nevada is likely to have very different options than a private university in New York City.

There are so many layers of decision making - federal, state, county, before colleges and universities even get a say.

We have no idea how long this will last, when testing capacity, PPE, more effective therapeutic treatments, or a vaccine might be in place, how many people have already contracted this virus, when and how the economy and society might begin to open up, or when a second wave might hit. While I appreciate that a later start to the school year helps the health care system to catch up, we have no idea if a second wave is likely to hit in October, January, or beyond or if we’re in for lots of mini outbreaks. We will have a lot more information 2-3 months from now; it seems premature for schools to make decisions now, given how much we currently don’t know.

A return to normal classes is probably most likely at community colleges, regional universities, and state schools with significant commuter/off campus student populations. For them, it will be less of a logistical nightmare to shift back and forth between face to face and online education, assuming that the student body has the internet access to succeed remotely. Fewer students would be living on campus and many would be able to drive home rather than flying.

The greatest complexity is precisely at the institutions that this forum favors - elite schools that place a premium on the residential experience and draw students across the nation and from abroad. The unexpected turmoil of this Spring is what many of us hope to avoid during the next academic year, not to mention that moving mass quantities of young people around the country on short notice is likely to contribute to the disease’s spread.

There are strategies that colleges and universities could employ that might permit a return to hybrid and/or face to face learning sooner. Cap classes at 20-30% room capacity, as essential businesses are now required to do. Large lectures delivered remotely with breakout smaller discussions (would require lots of TAs or profs would have to put in more teaching hours). Spread out classes over the entire school day and maybe even offer Saturday classes to ensure smaller group size. Differentiate between classes that can be delivered remotely with minimal degradation as opposed to ones that are necessarily more hands on. Have backup plans if professors or students need to self-quarantine periodically or if they fall ill. Use contact tracing apps on cell phones and face masks. Limit large gatherings of all kinds. Dorms? Yes, they are crowded, but so are apartment buildings in most major cities. Dining services would have to be managed very differently to be safe. While this would not be the residential experience many students signed on for (no large sporting events, concerts, plays, frat parties, etc.) it still would be a better learning experience than attending Zoom U from home.

805

Also, I’m not sure if anybody in this thread has mentioned the thing with UC-Irvine. They said in their acceptance letter to freshmen “Should circumstances limit your ability to travel or live at our campus, UCI is prepared to offer remote instruction for the Fall 2020 quarter for impacted freshmen." Apparently many universities have been talking about recording lectures and giving assignments/exams that can be completed from a distance so returning to campus is “optional”; this would relieve them of a lot of liability for people getting sick.

806

tOSU:

“All university units have begun transition planning while still responding to the crisis at hand,” University President Michael V. Drake said. “The task force will align planning across the wide spectrum of functions and operations necessary to the university’s return to on-campus operations.”

https://www.thelantern.com/2020/04/ohio-state-creates-post-pandemic-task-force-to-plan-campus-reopening/

807

I like the idea of staggering a return to campus, as you describe. Freshmen and sophomores could start online. Upperclassmen can return, isolate for 2 weeks, then bring in another cohort, isolate those for 2 weeks, then another cohort. Maybe the cohorts are determined by dorm. So, every other room, or every 3rd room, or something like that. Classes continue online, with students gradually returning to the classroom as their isolation period ends.

I don’t know. There are downsides to every option, including a full unrestricted return in the fall. I think it’s going to come down to the “least-worst” option. And I agree that one size does not fit all, but also that there will be some “follow-the-leader” going on.

808

If somehow classes do resume in person in the fall or even spring, what happens when the first student or faulty member gets sick and dies from COVID-19? Will the university “tolerate” a few deaths or will they once again completely shut down the university?

Without excellent medicines that treat the most severe symptoms, herd immunity, or a vaccine I don’t see how the residential college system is really an option.

809

Well, many residential universities survived for centuries when there were frequent pandemics. People adapt, or choose not to attend.

810

Anyone know of campuses that have a decent number of kids still on campus? I know classes are all online even if kids are there. How is Liberty doing? Last I heard, there have been a handful of students with the virus but not many. I’m guessing dining is take out but there are indeed kids in dorms. I don’t agree with the decision to let kids stay on campus there but it is an interesting “experiment”.

811

I see no reason why in person standardized testing can’t proceed. They need to reduce the number of students in each class to maintain social distancing, require everyone wear masks, provide hand sanitizer, and make sure site is sanitized before and after the test. They should also require the proctors not be among the at-risk group such as those over 55 or immune-compromised.

812

I really don’t understand how a school could treat freshman and upperclassmen differently. With the exception of a few freshmen seminars or maybe english comp, classes are not exclusively freshman or upperclassmen courses. A freshman who is advanced in a subject may start in an upper level course. An upperclassman who is exploring new interests or fulfilling gen eds may sign up for an intro course. Does a prof have to design a class that works for both the kids who are on campus and the ones who aren’t? How does that work in a small discussion based class. I can’t help but think the kids who are there in person are going to have a very different experience from the ones who are calling in. Or is the default that if even one kid signed up for the class is not on campus, then the whole class is online?

813

Freshmen science majors take a lot of key intro bio and chem classes with labs which, as discussed, are hard to replicate online. You can’t take higher level science classes until you get past those.

814

Here is a non-student article about Stanford
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/17/faculty-senate-holds-open-session-covid-19-issues/

The Chancellor at UC Davis sent this out yesterday. I’m sharing it because of the last section where he mentions the ramp-up/down task force.

815

True. D19 has intro chem II this semester and yesterday the prof bagged the last 5 weeks of the lab. It was going to be some type of group based project focused on the labs they have already completed, but I guess the prof felt remote learning would not work for this.

816

However, many colleges do not have 3-5 times the amount of classroom space that their classes would consume. Even if large lectures went online, there may still not be enough larger rooms with capacity 100+ to handle all of the 20-30 student classes. Not every college has a 65,000 seat Alamo Dome like UTSA has that can be subdivided into large “classrooms” to allow for classes with social distancing.

817

Too many students (US and international), too much litigation now, and better technology (online options) for universities to just open their campuses during an epidemic. A century ago, UT-Austin didn’t have 50,000 undergrads on campus. Different world now and different solutions.

818

Silly question, perhaps, but if masks are required then do students need to be 6 feet apart in the classroom? I know masks don’t protect the wearer so much b/c droplets can permeate and people often cross contaminate, but my understanding is they significantly reduce someone who is asymptomatic (or pre-symptomatic) from spreading the virus through coughs/sneezes/breathing/talking. So that’s something!

So if everyone is wearing masks could they reduce in class separation to 3 feet – or something else less than 6 ft, I don’t know the right distance.

I realize class conversation might seem weird at first with everyone in masks, but they could adapt.

I still think dorms are problematic unless you have sufficient testing and contact tracing in place to mitigate any outbreak quickly.

819

True, socaldad2002, but the same business model. Most residential universities cant afford to stay online for long. The budget was based on a residential model.

820

That was before the age of the LAWSUIT. Which have already popped up nationwide. Rest assured liability lawyers (I know one) are incredibly busy these days, trying to protect employers and that includes schools.