https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/coronavirus-college-professors.html
In this article, a professor of epidemiology withdrew from her university’s planning committee in frustration.
I do not trust the universities are listening to epidemiologists.
My daughter’s university released a fairly comprehensive 30-plus page plan, that includes cleaning schedules for classrooms and bathrooms. A few details need to be worked out such as dorm density, but they have relaxed the freshman dorm requirement so that should help. Mine is already in her off-campus apartment working at a hospital. The school is requiring masks, and the city it’s located in is requiring masks. I must say that the school has made me want to bang my head against the wall a couple times, but they have handled this whole thing masterfully from March till now. Maybe it helps that they have a medical school and world-class researchers who are already making breakthroughs, who knows.
My poor high school senior, on the other hand, is assuming she will not see the inside of her school again because the state mandates seem impossible to meet. But we shall see.
It will be interesting to see how far into the semester anyone gets before students are sent home again …
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I can answer about meat packing plants, and it does apply to colleges. In the beginning the management and employees didn’t take the virus seriously. Nobody was actually enforcing masks and a lot of employees wore them around their chin. Also, there is a lot of noise in a meat packing plant and the workers struggle to communicate. They would often pull their mask down and yell in another worker’s ear. They now have better ways to communicate. So the cases have pretty much gone away, but it’s not herd immunity. It’s respecting the rules and setting things up for success. ETA: the plants also changed sick days and it’s easier to call in sick.
That’s what colleges have to do. They have to enforce mask wearing and remove high transmission situations.
This is such a great post! There is sooo much noise out there it can drive you crazy. Nothing really changes until we have a vaccine or herd immunity. September, January, May, will essentially be the same until that exists. Most of us have been waiting with baited breath for “the plan” to reveal how their kid’s school will handle the fall. The reality is, nobody really knows as everything is subject to change based on the virus. Unless you want to drive yourself (and others) crazy, all you can do is take reasonable precautions and live your life. Social distance, wear a mask in public, and go about your business. Everyone will have a different comfort level with engaging with society. That’s OK as society is allowing for that.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/us-coronavirus-testing-could-fail-again/613675/
This is one of the biggest issues…we are outstripping our testing resources. You can only test millions of people a day if you have an almost unlimited supply of test kit ingredients.
In other possible good news there are a number of paper strip tests under development which aren’t quite as sensitive as the swab tests but are cheaper and faster and if you test positive from one you can then go for the more accurate swab test. Could be a game changer for colleges and the economy as an whole.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/opinion/coronavirus-tests.html
Colleges are listening to the accountants and the enrollment management people.
Not all of them. Some are keeping a lot of kids away and not inviting them back.
I don’t know the right answer for a big public school. How much do those schools stand to lose if the dorms don’t open and class is all remote? Students in off campus apartments might still return but that’s a private decision and those universities wouldn’t be responsible for those students when it comes to the virus.
There are many ways to fix this - not sure why we haven’t started implementing them holistically (I actually do know - because we don’t have a national testing plan):
-sewage testing
-pool testing
-saliva tests
Colleges, especially, need to implement these types of mass testing in order to minimize use of reagents and supplies. Airports and other places that have large swathes of people should be doing pool testing. Like in other countries (as noted in the article above). We can’t get out of our own way.
These paper strip tests are on the right track. Even if they are not the most accurate. The current process of waiting DAYS for a result and spreading asymptomatically is what is killing us. Better to test more frequently at 70% accurate than not at all.
Amen. I second this. I have to admit that once in a while I get “way” behind. So I look at a few then delete a lot of posts. The funny thing is it’s the exact same conversation.
LOL. I know I don’t need to read this thread but from a human behavior aspect it’s fascinating… Lol. Oh well, not sure If I am part of the solution or problem… ?Hmmm.
@privatebanker. You hit the nail on the head.
OK, back to building a flagstone patio. It’s getting there. The prep is a pain,and it’s hot today… This my cc friends is a great stress reliever!! Anyone in Chicago wanna help? It’s not that big but making everything look good is the hard part.?.
Sounds like that student may be a dual citizen.
@knowstuff, I agree that it’s the same basic info and arguments going on and on; I just find it helpful to go through the process of challenging/shaping my opinion about students returning to college by reading updates from real parents of what their kids are planning, what colleges are actually doing, etc. There are people on this thread who have barely left their homes in months; there are others (like me) whose spouse and teens go to work every day and who live in towns with thousands of visitors coming in every day.
Speaking only for D19’s school, it has been made perfectly clear that the school will continue to evaluate information and may need to change its plans for students returning. I honestly think that’s one of the reasons that it hasn’t even posted tuition, room and board bills yet (last year we received the bill mid-June).
What is clear aside from everyone’s home environment/resources varying greatly is that not every school’s resources are the same. Some have renowned epidemiologists on staff because they have Global Health Institutes and offer masters programs in epidemiology, can do their own testing due to their own lab capabilities, etc. and have small student populations to consider (less than 7,000 undergrads in D19’s case). Or consider Cornell’s study posted here previously which indicated infection rates would increase if campus was not opened due to more students living off campus with friends in the surrounding areas with essentially no guidance/rules.
If you live in a geographic area that permits you/your student to essentially remain at home with no interaction with others until a vaccine is available, I can see that your student staying home would be the safest option.
Chicago just started a quarantine requirement for travelers from ‘hot’ states. I wonder if small college towns might do the same before classes start.
Every college is listening to their accountants and enrollment management people.
Some selective institutions with large endowments have been advised that they can most likely weather a conservative approach.
The overwhelming majority of the colleges and universities in the U.S. have been told that they need to bring students back to campus if they hope to remain financially viable.
@2ndthreekids —Re: that Cornell study that infection rate would increase if campus were not opened. I am still wondering how they determined that. I have not read Martha’s 97 page report but have skimmed through the subsequent announcements. Maybe they concluded this b/c they felt they would not be able to test the population otherwise? Just guessing.
Did anyone post the Cornell Daily Sun (student newspaper) article that talked about their plan to rely on pooled testing using technology the Vet school uses for animal testing?
“…there is a very large ability to do [polymerase chain reaction] tests, the chemical reaction used for doing testing for the presence of the virus. There’s a large capability to do that in the Vet School. That exists in order to do testing for dairy cows and other animals in order to control outbreaks in that population. But it can be repurposed. There’s a whole bunch of complicated regulatory stuff that we could talk about, but that can be repurposed to provide testing for our community. And that’s a thing that most other universities don’t have access to.”
“One of the things that really separates what we’re proposing to do from what other universities are proposing is our ability to test everyone regularly and at such a high cadence. Part of the reason we can do it is because of the Animal Health Diagnostics Center. Another reason that we can do it is because we’re building capabilities in pool testing, based on the work of people in the Vet School who have expertise in the experimental side of that and based on early work, that we did thanks to our provost. That’s a second reason that we’re able to test so many people so often.”
There is more, and the interview is a bit rambling, but it was an interesting read, especially the parts about contact assumptions.
A few links to show that the US doesn’t own the drug market and has to compete for supplies.
Here’s one from 2016. I bet India and China have grown as a percentage since then.
https://howmuch.net/articles/world-map-of-drug-exports-2016
This shows API’s…November 2019 which is interesting timing.
https://www.dcatvci.org/6213-global-api-sourcing-which-countries-lead
My medical friends expect colleges to be back to normal for January 2022 semester. That is really impressively fast for medical development, but rather hard on those caught in the present.
Other countries have managed to figure out where to get them and have national testing protocols. We are the best country in the world… we should have this in a good place by now. We don’t.
If every college is testing all kids coming on campus, and then frequently there after (which from what I’ve seen is their plan), then this testing process has to be up and running within 6 weeks. Perhaps they will be the ones forging ahead and coming up with mass testing solutions - working with private industry to do so. I do believe in American inginuity - but as they say “necessity breeds innovation”. We are not great at doing this ahead of time, only when our feet are to the fire. And this virus unfortunately moves too fast for even us.
My son starts his accelerated EMT certification course on Monday. The class is Monday-Friday from 9am-5pm for 4 weeks.
M-W-F will be 100% remote online learning.
T-Th is 100% in person for the hands-on practical components.
I’ll be interested to hear about their Covid protocols. My son brought home two of his fitted N95 masks from the Rescue Squad. I don’t know if he’ll wear those, or not.
I’m looking at this course as a dry run for his return to school.
I have a friend who is in management for a group of nursing homes (really really nice nursing homes). They are trying to build up a 90 day supply of PPE but are still having problems getting things. Volunteers were making the plastic gowns they need for covid patients (we were folding and rolling them in a church basement). They are using their corporate meeting room to store and ship the PPE because supplies were being stolen from the sites if they stored too much
The nursing homes are still in competition with the state and federal government for supplies. The big hospitals have their supply chains, even restaurants and stores have connections, but the smaller businesses still have trouble.
Schools are late jumping into the supply chain since most closed in March and didn’t need gloves and wipes and stuff in the quantities they’ll need in the fall. It’s not just the tests they need but all the masks, gloves, wipes and stuff for the employees to do all this extra cleaning.
Schools will be jumping into the competition for tests and PPE. Will there be enough? ?