School ranking

<p>My son picked his schools for application based upon the program (Computer Science) and the fact that they didn't require SAT IIs (I had to bite my tongue and keep saying 'this is his choice'). So now, it seems his decision comes down to UIUC (5th rated in USN&WR), Penn State (19th or so), RPI (20th) and GaTech (not rated, but sure seems like a nice school).</p>

<p>So we're now wondering why you wouldn't go to the #5 rated program. The school is lovely, the faculty and students seem to know what they are doing, etc. But we'd be paying OOS tuition. Versus PSU (which none of us are thrilled with, although it's $11K a year less) or RPI (which actually is less than both when you take the merit aid into consideration). So from a 'value' standpoint, it doesn't sit well with me to not only pass up a merit scholarship, but ALSO pay an OOS surcharge. But on the other hand, if UIUC gets him where he wants to be in 4 years...</p>

<p>I have read as others on this board have debated the 'cost' vs. 'quality' issue, but...how shall I say...it's different when it's your own situation. My S came to me tonite asking for my input and I put this in front of him. Needless to say, it didn't clarify anything. My parting comment was 'they are all fine schools'.</p>

<p>If anyone that's more than 20 feet away from this has insight, I'd appreciate it.</p>

<p>Has he been to RPI? Rankings are really just some information--data that is actually somewhat variable from year to year and based on things that might only matter a little to you and your son as individuals, especially over time.</p>

<p>Now that you have real choices, I'd let go of the rankings (you have way better data from how he feels when he visits, what the profs and classes look like, what you think of the students you meet as future friends (even in-laws!), and what the costs/travel etc. will mean for everyone's lifestyle.</p>

<p>I lived near RPI for 4 years and knew someone wonderful who was a dean there. It is definitely worth looking at before you say no. UIUC is also a wonderful school--but certainly a very different kind and size of community.</p>

<p>A ranking is a statistic, it is not a guarantee of anything. I personally don't think it is ever a good idea to let a number make a decision for you</p>

<p>I'm going to agree with mmaah- it's time to let the rankings go. As your son did his homework at the start, and picked the schools that has his program, it's now time to concentrate on the schools themselves. Each has it's own environment- based on student population, size, proximity to city, to home etc. etc. He might decide Georgia is too far from home or a lot of friends are going to Penn State so what the heck- he'll go there too. I think it is now time to concentrate on the specifics and feel of each school. Has he visited all the schools yet? Sometimes it comes down to a gut feeling. Good luck. We're planning our last trip (I hope) to visit some college campuses a 2nd time. I have a feeling my d may also make her final decision based on a gut instinct. Personally, I like some schools better than others, but she is the one who will be there for 4 years.</p>

<p>I agree that it's appropriate at this point to let go of rankings and compare the schools themselves. That may mean that there is something specific about UIUC that causes it to have the higher ranking, or mit might not. It may mean that RPI is a better choice because it's smaller. Overall, you seem least enchanted with PSU, which may mean it's not the best fit.</p>

<p>I have to disagree, though, with the use of the word "surcharge" in characterizing OOS tuition. OOS means you don't get part of your tuition paid for by the state (because you're not paying taxes there). It doesn't mean that they're taking you to the cleaners to support instate kids.</p>

<p>That may be semantics, but if this perspective is giving you a bad taste about UIUC, then looking at it differently might change that. At any rate, even OOS, most state schools charge less tuition than privates (which of course can be mitigated by merits like the one your S is offered from RPI).</p>

<p>When my d was looking at schools, I learned my insight meant nothing. I envisioned her at a small warm & fuzzy school in a country setting. She had absolutely NO interest in schools I thought fit her. She preferred schools 10,000 - 15,000 students. She also narrowed her list to her major (BFA in Graphic Design), eventually deciding between Syracuse & RIT. Very different settings. After several visits to each, she chose RIT. I would have guessed the more fun, sports oriented social SU. She loves RIT - has said she likes that everyone is focused on their work. While she agrees that her best friend's Penn State environment sounds like more fun, my d can't see herself there - and she has found ways to have fun in Rochester. </p>

<p>So I think we need to let our kids choose what's best for them. I agree with others suggesting your son visit these schools, sit in on classes, do overnights if possible. Assure him that all the schools are good choices - it's really about where he feels "at home." You're lucky that your son has good schools to choose from. I hope I'm that lucky next year with my son.</p>

<p>Apple- you might suggest to your son that he pretend for a minute that he's decided not to major in CS (since a huge percentage of kids change their intended major.... many more than once!) Unless he's done college level CS he may not know what the field is all about; if he's the strongest programmer/techy kid at his HS he may be surprised with how theoretical his classes are.</p>

<p>So-- as far-fetched as it is... if he abandons CS, which school offers him the best opportunities? I have a nephew who faced a similar dilemma-- top schools in CS vs. best overall environment; mercifully he opted for environment, since the CS major only lasted one semester and he recognizes that HS programming experience, web design, and overall "tinkering" with computers since he was a kid in no way replicates the academic field he was in.</p>

<p>Blossom- you made an excellent point!</p>

<p>I'm wondering what ranking wouldn't include GaTech. It's nicknamed the "MIT of the South" for a reason. The graduates I know (all of whom are in CS) are well-educated and successful.</p>

<p>As for RPI, my husband went there in CS, as did many of our friends. I have former students who are there now or just recently graduated. It is an EXCELLENT school (it was my son's third choice after MIT (where he's studying CS now) and CalTech). The have a very hands-on program. If your son wants to do things, rather than study theory, it's a good choice.</p>

<p>Hello all,
I am a newcomer to the forum although I have been lurking for a while now. I felt I needed to speak to this because we were faced with an identical situation two years ago. D was accepted with full ride at our state U, but after many sleepless nights of pondering, she chose to go to UIUC instead. UIUC is rated 4th in the nation in engineering (her chosen field) and was a reasonable distance from home (this was important to us). Yes, this has been an expensive choice as we also are OOS, but the school has been an excellent match for her. UIUC has also provided some small merit scholarships along the way. Corporations from all over the nation do recruit here, and D has used the opportunity to find a great intership this summer that will pay close to $8000 helping her offset some college expenses.
Maybe some of the other choices will be great for your S but, just wanted to let you know UIUC has been good for our D.</p>

<p>Blossom, I agree that the potential to change majors is high. That's why there are other colleges on the list that he's been admitted to that are, IMHO, more 'well rounded'. However, he's pretty passionate right now about building a base from which to go work for a game development or similar company. While college environment (fitting in) is important, he keeps saying he wants 'the best' program that's going to allow him to get into a game company. (You can argue the virtues of this, but I think that lots of activities in this world will integrate the 'video game' model as we move forward. ) He doesn't want to see another dorm room, and doesn't care what the weather is like. He stayed in dorms with CS majors at a couple schools and has heard about how 'theoretical' it is. His feeling, based on what he's heard at these schools and read, is that he should do the theory to get the foundation that companies want. </p>

<p>BTW, he also applied to (and was accepted) programs that are 'video game development' programs that seem less academic. These seem to have gone by the wayside as he learns more about college and career.</p>

<p>That said, I was all about finding a school where he could also switch majors. UIUC does that (well, kinda, they said the acceptance rate for transfers from engineering to business is 50 percent). RPI and GaTech are tougher. But how much should this figure in for a kid (ok, young man) that has a focus. </p>

<p>As he visits schools, he's asked the questions about how the school can get him to his goal. He's asked faculty and he's asked students. I guess he needs to do another visit to RPI as an admitted student to ask the same questions (we went this summer and didn't get to speak with anyone beyond the standard admissions program). </p>

<p>The more he explores, the more sure he seems of his choice of major. (I don't think the theoretical CS courses will be the stumbling block, but the 4 - 6 semesters of physics and math that these programs require.) But right now, he's unsure about this final college choice.</p>

<p>And despite the fact that this is his choice and he wants to be independent, he still asks for his parents' opinions. And I'm trying to gather as much input as possible.</p>

<p>I don't think this is an issue of cost vs. quality. I think this is should be determing what is of "value" to your son. First off, are the finances available for him to go to the most expensive option? How much hardship will there be if he chooses the most expensive? If it is possible and it is his first choice then the value he would receive out of attending would be appropriate. If however, the cost is too far beyong reach then it isn't worth discussing or even being on the table.</p>

<p>I would apply this to all his options. Weigh his likes/dislikes of each department at each respective school, the social setting, the distance from home, the opprotunities for research/internships/contacts and his "gut" feel for the school. Weigh these against the cost. What is the best "value" for him and his needs.</p>

<p>There might not be a clear-cut choice but thinking along those lines wil probably eliminate some and repeat the process with the remaining ones. I wouldn't factor in wether its OOS, merit, discounted...I would look at the bottom-line figure and use that with his perceived "value".</p>

<p>Good luck. Son will be in that same position next week.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>Re: 4 to 6 semesters of physics and math--maybe you mean a total of 4 semesters of math and physics? <a href="http://www.cs.rpi.edu/academics/undergrad/04.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cs.rpi.edu/academics/undergrad/04.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It's really not that onerous. One semester of physics, two of calculus, and two other math courses.</p>

<p>Your son should go wherever he feels comfortable. If he's a good student, he'll be able to do well out of any of those schools. Remember, those rankings are for graduate study, not undergraduate study. At the undergraduate level, the curricula at all the schools will be very, very similar.</p>

<p>Apple, appreciate that your son has more direction than most kids, but has he ever heard of bioinformatics? Does he know about nanotechnology? There are a lot of disciplines which require a good grounding in CS but which will take him different places career wise. It is very hard to look out four years from now and predict exactly which industries will be recruiting for which jobs (I'm in HR and have been involved in recruiting for both BA/BS and grad school for a long time). It is easier to look at general patterns, overall strength of a schools reputation in different corporate circles, etc. and discern where the better opportunities lie. I remember a few schools which added programs in E-commerce when it looked like the dot.com boom was going to last forever-- where are those grads now? What happens when whole industries or functions get outsourced to India?</p>

<p>I think it's great that he has direction... but he can't predict the state of the computer gaming industry in four years, or even that he'll want a job in it after his first internship. What he can predict is that he wants a good technical education (and if the math and physics are a turn-off that might be a red-flag) and then try and figure out where the better opportunities are.</p>

<p>good luck-- he sounds like a great kid with a lot of wonderful choices!</p>

<p>Blossom, Great example of the e-commerce programs. I think that's perhaps what he's heard and why he's coming to the conclusion that a good solid CS degree with perhaps some focus in gaming is more appropriate than a 'video game' program.</p>

<p>If he wants to move into a difference engineering field, I think any of the schools being considered are fine. I was just thinking if he decided that law or business or psychology, e.g., was the new direction, that could be tough. His dad says 'then he transfers if he needs to'.</p>

<p>So, being in HR, do any of these schools strike you as having any distinct advantages?</p>

<p>Those are all great schools, and all well respected among recruiters. Forget the rankings from here on out and help him choose the one he'll be happiest at. (And I'd certainly be taking $$$ into account for my happiness. :) )</p>

<p>Kids who are turned on by their undergrad education and explore lots of interesting (if not neccesarily "useful" in an economic sense) subjects and do well, tend to do well in both the job market and in grad school. I am not a fan of early specialization (as you can tell!) and think that any kid would do well by picking a school where they're going to make friends, take inspiring classes, be able to cultivate relationships with professors, and get some exposure to career options (whether internships, research with a professor, co-op, summer job, etc.) If at the end of four years he's still interested in Gaming-- great. If not, he can't go wrong with any of his options as long as he's comfortable in the environment and thinks he's going to get a great education regardless of the field.</p>

<p>Law schools love engineers, by the way. So do B-schools.</p>

<p>A lot of this sounds much like my S, especially from Apple17's post. Our preliminary research concentrated on strong CS programs. He's very sure he wants to do something in the broad spectrum; we wanted to make sure his choices would allow him to explore a wide variety of options in CS, not just a department primarily designed to be a minor for business majors like so many seem. He's very strong in math and physics so that's not a problem; has never been happy in English, History, etc. so is very unlikely to switch sides of the brain. So even if he changes majors he will, as Blossom said, stay in the technical arena. He was accepted at UIUC Eng which is in-state; haven't gotten finaid info yet but we're not likely to qualify on need. There are a lot of factors pointing us there but knowing our S, we know he would not thrive at a large university. Then he was accepted to WUSTL which would give that wonderful overall college experience but they have not get built up a top engineering rep. Then yesterday he got accepted to CMU SCS and was absolutely flying - last year he visited the dept, talked to faculty, sat in on a class. This year he did the SBW and loved it; it is his dream school and he could not be more thrilled to be accepted. Even called his grandparents immediately on his own to share the news when normally he had to be dragged to the phone. His GC, who has know him all through HS, thinks it's a wonderful match. We've heard from a friend with a S in SCS how caring and involved that dept is. It would not be easy to pay for four years but is possible. In the end we think we are fortunate that we can give our S the opportunity to see how much he can achieve with all opportunities available. Plus think how grateful he is to us for being willing to send him there!</p>