<p>We are doing the college search. My daughter is a violist -
HS junior - wants to be a Music Teacher Ed major. A-student-taking the SAT for the first time today. Does anyone have any knowledge about Potsdam, York College, Hartwick? Can anyone suggest schools?</p>
<p>If you use the search function and look for "Crane", or SUNY Potsdam, Fredonia (if you're looking at Crane, you may as well look at Fredonia too!), you will find lots of threads, comments. A number of us have had kids who have applied/auditioned/attended these schools. I believe Hartwick's program is fairly small, but I don't really know much about it. Can't help with York. If you have specific questions about Crane/Fredonia, feel free to post.</p>
<p>car, welcome. I've taken the liberty of posting a link to your post in the College Selections forum, as it gives a bit more info. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/667920-music-teacher-education-major-looking-school.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/667920-music-teacher-education-major-looking-school.html</a></p>
<p>Straight music ed is most cost effective at your in-state publics, and both SUNY Potsdam and Fredonia do excellent jobs, and Crane has a national rep as a top notch music ed school.</p>
<p>Some info about her years of private study, summer experiences, youth orchestra involvement would help in trying to gauge an appropriate school insofar as chances for reasonable success within an audition pool.</p>
<p>Hartwick is a small program with a good reputation, but lists no viola specific faculty, which I see as potentially detrimental for an accomplished instrumentalists looking to further develop as both a musician and a player.</p>
<p>York's offerings are a BA in performance as opposed to a BM, and the music ed degree is a BS. I say this as one needs to compare apples to apples. A BA tends to be more liberal arts focused than a BM, and has fewer music specific degree requirements than a BM. A BS may have more general educational theory and applied course work than a BA in music ed, and potentially less music specific instructional theory and applied music coursework than a BM in education. The trick is to look at the actual degree requirements within each school's undergrad handbook (or music school supplement) in comparing programs within and between schools.</p>
<p>BassDad's post at the very top of the page is a must read in general for any one considering a music undergrad path, but I'll add a few music ed specifics: </p>
<p>-peer quality and teacher selection may be less of a selection criteria for an ed major versus a straight performance major or a dual perf/ed pursuit. It's important that the peer quality be high, but there is often a vast difference between a performance based need and a music ed based need. Peer quality is also a function of what a student has been exposed to, and can aspire to. High level players are easily frustrated if the peer quality doesn't drive them to be better musicians.</p>
<p>-In general, music ed places less of an emphasis on auditions than performance based admits, and academics play a greater role as will an interview. None of these are insurmountable odds, and there are a wide range of options.</p>
<p>Syracuse, Ithaca, Hartt, Susquehanna, Drexel, Rutgers/Mason Gross, NYU, Duquesne, Oberlin all come to mind as schools worth a look-see</p>
<p>Let me do a bit of searching, and I'll try and come up with some names as well as viola faculty. How far afield does she want geographically and am I to assume money and aid is a concern?</p>
<p>Strings magazine is an excellent resource, and their issue with music school listing just oublished within the last month or two. They are also accessible on line, but I don't like their search engine. Strings:</a> Music School Directory I prefer the hard copy.
Also, check the American String Teachers Association website, as well as the MENC and MTNA sites.</p>
<p>I'm a firm believer in schools with attached StringProjects: NSPC:</a> NSPC</p>
<p>Some specific music ed threads:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=Crane%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=Crane</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/235446-music-ed-public-vs-private.html?highlight=Music+Ed%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/235446-music-ed-public-vs-private.html?highlight=Music+Ed</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/322262-music-ed-nyu.html?highlight=Music+Ed%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/322262-music-ed-nyu.html?highlight=Music+Ed</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/364070-music-ed-schools-boston-ma.html?highlight=Music+Ed%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/364070-music-ed-schools-boston-ma.html?highlight=Music+Ed</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/537916-pros-cons-large-vs-small-univ-music-ed-vocal-performance.html?highlight=Music+Ed%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/537916-pros-cons-large-vs-small-univ-music-ed-vocal-performance.html?highlight=Music+Ed</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/655492-music-education-these-schools.html?highlight=Music+Education%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/655492-music-education-these-schools.html?highlight=Music+Education</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/651282-schools-music-education-northeast.html?highlight=Music+Education%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/651282-schools-music-education-northeast.html?highlight=Music+Education</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/641350-youngstown-state-university-violin-performance-music-education.html?highlight=Music+Education%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/641350-youngstown-state-university-violin-performance-music-education.html?highlight=Music+Education</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/516829-music-education-careers.html?highlight=Music+Education%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/516829-music-education-careers.html?highlight=Music+Education</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/223274-music-education-schools.html?highlight=Music+Education%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/223274-music-education-schools.html?highlight=Music+Education</a></p>
<p>And some viola specific threads:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/299542-top-universities-viola-performance.html?highlight=viola%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/299542-top-universities-viola-performance.html?highlight=viola</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/587536-viola-performance.html?highlight=viola%5B/url%5D%5Burl%5Dhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=Crane%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/587536-viola-performance.html?highlight=violahttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=Crane</a></p>
<p>viola dad - good point about the lack of viola faculty (@hartwick). will be checking that out at colleges. i guess we would want to have a lesson with whomever she would be working with. these are all things one doesn't think of until you start the process!</p>
<p>as far as my d's private lessons, she has been taking private since 4th grade, studying with 3 different teachers. This year we changed teachers and she is studying with a doctoral student at a local suny university and it seems to be a great experience. They are working on her audition pieces now. She is in a local orchestra at a private university on li - they are playing carnegie hall in april - should be a lovely experience! this past summer she served as the student teacher for summer orchestra at our high school and experienced teaching one to one and also conducting a small group of middle school students.</p>
<p>You are correct in assuming tuition amount matters! We will apply to more costly schools and hope for partial academic/music scholarships and take it form there. She would rather go to a private or university than potsdam or fredonia because although we haven't visited yet my daughter is thinking that the small size and rural area is not something she would choose. i have been reading that Crane is a good program so i don't think we can afford to ignore these schools either.</p>
<p>We'll see. You are being a tremendous help and i have learned alot from last night and today. can't thank you enough. i will look at the threads you so kindly pointed out also. i would like to get some inside info about campus life and general feel for potsdam.</p>
<p>thanks again and look forward to anything else that you might think of...BTW are you familiar with Gettysburg?</p>
<p>Gettysburg's Sunderman is a small, and fairly new program. Again, there is no viola specific faculty. Yeon-Su Kim the listed faculty, is primarily a violinist (to my knowledge), but teaches both. I have issues with this, as there are major technique differences between the two instruments, particularly at the intermediate to advanced levels. I would not recommend a double duty instructor to a performance major, unless it was of a "Kopec/Zukerman/Vamos" type of reputation. It might be ok for an ed major, but again, there's a difference in teaching violin and viola at intermediate, advanced levels and at the highest levels. It can be a double edged sword. But that's just my $.02.</p>
<p>A current thread with some thoughts on a similar topic:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...lin-viola.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...lin-viola.html</a></p>
<p>An older thread on Gettysburg. Please note the dates.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...ght=Gettysburg%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...ght=Gettysburg</a></p>
<p>As in most initial choice selections, it pays to paint a broad brush, and narrow the choices through networking, speaking to local resources (ensemble directors, educators, newly degreed professionals). Visiting local schools if possible gets some close options out of the way, before committing to visits at greater distance options.</p>
<p>There are posters on both last year's <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...ol+acceptances%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...ol+acceptances</a> and this year's <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...ll-2009-a.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...ll-2009-a.html</a> threads with Gettysburg acceptances. These threads can be great resources for identifying sources of info and impressions from visits, auditions, etc.</p>
<p>Again, not all schools are right for every student. What is perfect for one is wromng for another and vice-versa. What is offered is opinion and observation, not cast in stone recommendations.</p>
<p>I have no idea why the links posted in #6 above aren't working, but here they are again in order </p>
<p>If you do a text copy and paste of an older article in which the URL is not spelled out in full (the inclusion of ... is a pretty good sign that it has been abbreviated somewhere along the line), then the link is not going to work properly, because when you click on the new link that appears your browser will attempt to go where it is told - an abbreviated version of the actual URL.</p>
<p>I copied and pasted the links that worked in your last post, and got the following:</p>
<p>Switching from Violin to Viola</p>
<p>Sunderman Conservatory - Gettysburg</p>
<p>Master List of Music School Acceptances, Fall 2008</p>
<p>Master List of Music School Acceptances, Fall 2009</p>
<p>Since they did not have the explicit http prefix in the text for the link, they did not even show up as hyperlinks. For this reason, it is better to post pointers to the original article than it is to copy and past text from the original into a new message.</p>
<p>Thanks, I normally use the mouse command "copy link location", but maybe just did a straight copy. I dunno. It was late. I was tired. And the first to admit I have rudimentary computer skills.</p>