<p>As I’ve been reading posts by PG, Bay, Poetgrl, jym626, and those of their persuasion…they sure are doing their best to acts as defenders of social exclusivity on the basis of SES in the context of college campus club/organization contexts. It’s gotten to a point that a few posters pointed out how “pollyannish” PG’s et al’s proclamation for those who are snobbed on the basis of SES to “just get over it”…and I heartedly agree with that assessment. PG’s advice is also a glib type of advice often tossed by the SES privileged and their less privileged hangers-on towards those who aren’t and thus, left out or allowed in on a token consideration basis. </p>
<p>Hunt stated I was calling for social egalitarianism once one is admitted to the campus. That’s correct, especially in the context of LACs and similar sized campuses where a handful of students deliberately choosing to create campus clubs/organizations which exclude some or worse, the majority of members can have a strong divisive or even a toxic effect on the campus community. </p>
<p>If those who are inclined to snob on the basis of their superior SES are that adamant about separating themselves out to that extent, maybe it is THEY who need to assess/reassess whether the given LAC/LAC-like university campus community is right for them. </p>
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<p>There may also be other factors such as personal politics/morality/ethics against working for large corporations/big businesses* or on the flipside, a few companies from professional fields who tend to be conservative leaning having prejudices against hiring from colleges perceived as too lefty. </p>
<p>Many classmates from my time at Oberlin had the first and those like myself who didn’t had some weird encounters with a few corporate interviewers who had issues with our college’s then radical progressive left reputation. </p>
<p>Fortunately, most were professional enough for that to never be an issue…though a few colleagues do throw in some friendly ribbing about it. No issues with the latter as I can use the “turnabout is fair play” maneuver to rib them on their colleges’ reputation in return. </p>
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<li>They tended to go off to academia, music, arts/performing arts, non-profits/activist organizations promoting causes they believe in, or started businesses where they tried to put their politics/morality/ethics into practice.</li>
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<p>No, I am not a <em>defender</em> of social exclusivity. I just don’t see why I (or in this context, my daughter) should spent one whit of time worrying about a relative handful of students on her campus who go join a club that is of interest to them. </p>
<p>You perceive the mere <em>presence</em> of someone with more money than you as being snobby, haughty, elitist, pretentious, etc. Regardless of what they actually do or say.</p>
<p>Except where it doesn’t – as in Wellesley, where a handful of students are in societies and 95% of the campus hardly knows or cares. That’s not “toxic” or “divisive.”</p>
<p>Anyway, the people in these clubs, etc. aren’t spending their days making fun of others. They’re just doing their own thing. Can you say the same about your Oberlin buddies who openly mocked others? Especially for the clothing they wore? Wow, how superficial they must be, and how fond they must be of proclaiming their own superiority over others.</p>
<p>corbat, I attended a state flagship, and I put myself through school. I was GDI and didn’t join any sorority and, as stated, my daughter bored of it easily. She also worked all through college.</p>
<p>What I am advocating for is “live and let live.”</p>
<p>Why focus on what other people are doing? In your college years you ought to be too busy with your own business to be worrying about what’s going on in anybody else’s world. If you aren’t? DO something about it.</p>
<p>But, honestly, let other people have their own pursuits.</p>
<p>Also, just to be clear, the wealthy Oberlin students who you are purporting to represent are about as hypocritical as they come if this is their true stance, which I seriously doubt.</p>
<p>You know something, cobrat? I grew up in a rowhouse in northeast Philly that can’t be more than 10 feet wide. 5 of us in a two-bedroom house. My mother was a secretary and my grandfather a blue-collar, factory worker. So I am sick and tired of your “higher SES” crap. I was hardly to the manor (or manner) born, and I am not some privileged person who doesn’t deign to talk to anyone who doesn’t make a certain amount of money. I wasn’t that way in college, and I’m not that way now. So cool it with the accusations. I am, however, selective in who I hang around with. You might mistake that for exclusive, but that’s your problem.</p>
<p>That’s your own reading of my arguments putting words in my mouth. And your perceptions about how I’d assume someone with money than me being automatically all of that is false.</p>
<p>I don’t feel that way…unless someone does exhibit behaviors which do fit. Forming campus organizations/clubs which exclude others on SES basis and being ostentatious about showing off one’s wealth when it’s not the time or place to do so are two examples. </p>
<p>As for the handbag argument…one’s clothing and accessories does communicate something to others whether intended or not. While it’s your right to wear a fancy handbag, one should also anticipate doing so may cause negative reactions…especially in times/places where they are inappropriate. </p>
<p>It’s little different from someone wearing a mohawk haircut or “Eat The Rich” t-shirt to a corporate office or a black tie social event hosted by folks like Rupert Murdoch or the Koch brothers and then complaining about being rejected for a job, disciplined/fired for not complying with corporate grooming/dress norms, or ejected/being harshly criticized and denounced for such grooming/clothing choices. Same thing from folks in the greater public who don’t find mohawks or those wearing “Eat The Rich” t-shirts appealing.</p>
<p>Then again, most I know who make the grooming/fashion choices I cited in that example know very well those choices will elicit some negative reactions, own it proudly, and aren’t the types to make arguments such as “It’s just a haircut/t-shirt” or otherwise complain about the negative reactions of such choices from the greater public.</p>
Huh? Please put your reading glasses on, cobrat. I have not said word one about the school clubs nor your perception of being SNUBBED (the word is snubbed, not snobbed) by members thereof. All I said was that I agreed with poetgrl’s post $324 (saying that she would be stunned if she and you observed things the same way) and my being tired of the constant references to classmates/cousins and the off topic youtube links… but I digress. I did find the award winning chip packer relative quite laugh-worthy though, I must admit.</p>
<p>While ideally everyone would just ‘live and let live’, in my own experience as a univ professor at a variety of different institutions, here are some ways I HAVE seen social class issues affect campus climate:</p>
<p>-If you end up with a majority of wealthy students, you may sometimes have situations where these wealthy students don’t understand why the poor students are being so ‘careerist’ – If you have a lot of wealthy faculty, you might see faculty making similar comments. This means things like people implying that students who load up with biology or accounting classes in hopes of being marketable don’t care about learning in the same way that those who take a lot of French literature and ecology classes, etc.</p>
<p>-Similarly, students who are in hurry to get through school for financial reasons might be accused of being uninvolved in the campus community, not being joiners etc. (For example, classmates might not understand why some students take an extra class every semester, etc.) </p>
<p>I’ve seen faculty do this too – student comes in upset about being closed out of a class, and the faculty member says to the student “It’s not that big a deal really. Why don’t you take this class instead? it will really expand your horizons” – not realizing that the student and his or her parents have calculated down to the penny exactly how many semester hours they can afford. In this case, that extra course is an unaffordable luxury.</p>
<p>As a prof, it’s a fine line you sometimes walk – on the one hand, wanting to ask the students who have studied abroad “Have you seen this issue as well in your travels in France? How does this work in Germany?” but also not wanting to rub the other students’ faces in it week after week as you give special praise or attention to the experiences that these students have had which others cannot afford.</p>
<p>It is tricky because the brochures from the colleges do tend to present everyone as having more or less the same experience at the same college they attend due to having access to the same resources (i.e. everyone can use the library and the gym). I think therefore students may be surprised when they come to campus and find that this is not really the case. I think maybe there’s an analogy with real estate – the idea of buying the nicest house in the slightly downscale neighborhood, vs. buying the smallest house in the most expensive neighborhood. You would feel differently about the two experiences.</p>
<p>And, is this a discussion about the kids of truly rich or of just the wealthy? I ask because the kids/grand kids of billionaires like H.L. Hunt, Ross Perot, Sr. and T. Boone Pickens go to places like Vanderbilt, SMU and TCU. Heck, Ross Perot, Jr. (who now is a billionaire on his own) served 7-8 years in the military after graduating from Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>Well, the OP asked (or at least implied) a pretty good question: is it beneficial to try to go to schools frequented by rich students, with the idea that they’ll have a good alumni network that you can take advantage of? My observation is that there may be some benefit to this–I do know of some cases of kids getting jobs through college friends’ families.</p>
<p>I wondered if the OP was possibly a member of the top .5-1% and looking for where they might be comfortable. They are as equally entitled to that as those who want to badger them ad nauseum for perceived injustices and old unresolved personal slights.</p>
<p>It’s ok if that’s a nice incidental surprise upon going to college. However, if one main motives for going to a given college is to hobnob with the wealthy/well-connected in the hopes of getting a job/getting into their social circles, it’s an attitude not too far removed from folks who only contact an acquaintance or “friends” when they have a problem requiring that acquaintance/“friend’s” expertise in lieu of developing a genuine friendship where the main thing is to hang out socially with folks who are friendly and cool. </p>
<p>I can somewhat relate as many fellow computer techie friends were beset by acquaintances/so-called friends who’d only contact them when they have computer problems and would otherwise not be interested in associating with them as a genuinely friendly acquaintance/friend. Not cool, in my book. </p>
<p>Despite PG’s charges that I have issues with rich people, this is a time when I feel OP’s seeming motives of “getting something” out of such relationships in a crass mercenary sense rightly would be perceived as a turnoff by those who are wealthy and well-connected.</p>
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<p>The disdain goes in both directions. However, I have noticed there’s seemingly more folks here who disdain “useless Liberal Arts” majors and in a case where I’d agree with PG <em>Warning: Space time continuum disruption</em>, a strong STEM/pre-professional majors uber alles.</p>
<p>No, actually it’s not in the least the same thing. </p>
<p>See, if I go in for a job interview wearing an inappropriate t-shirt – I am seeking approval (for lack of a better term) from those people – because I am in an inferior position to them (from the standpoint of they have a job that I want). </p>
<p>If I walk around campus though with our hypothetical nice bag, however, I am not seeking approval of anybody. I’m just going about my business and ignoring you. Your “disdain” is your problem, and you are not the arbiters of the social norms that I need to conform to.</p>
<p>Maybe everyone should just focus on their own lives. It’s not for any student to understand or not-understand the major-choices or extracurricular choices of other students. There’s too much explaining and justifying going on, it seems.</p>