curmudgeon: Despite what I wrote in an earlier posting, I still think it’s the academics and scores that (probably) initially get a student noticed for scholarship monies. I suspect that the stats of TheMom’s kid are fairly typical. So if you and your daughter are really looking only at schools that offer merit money, and regardless of what they post for their stats, I’d certainly strongly encourage her to take that SAT one more time.
And as far as research opportunities at LAC’s, I’m sure they’re out there. But we know a few kids who were given wonderful internships over the summer and then offered really attractive research opportunities (and yes, at state universities) to entice them to attend. And they did, and it has worked out great. So I don’t know about those opportunities being easier at an LAC… just my take. I think people often believe a state university is too big for opportunities lke that, but–in fact–they often have the research monies and big grants to be able to offer a lot more to students w/regard to research.
To all, a quick but still frustrating search on merit awards at Emory (I am not picking on them, it applies to all) yields the following: 2000 nominations for 150 awards regardless of the size of the award. I’ll wait till my D gets home and she’ll tell you what that percentage is but even a history major knows that it “sucks”.
Yeah…my son applied for a institutional scholarship (full ride) that has about 3000 eligible, about 1000 complete application, about 100 interview, and about 10 offered. Not great odds, but he tried (unsuccessfully) anyway. I think alot of it depends on who reads the application. I know a couple of kids who seem superficially less qualified (grades, focus, etc.) but got farther in the process.
jack, I appreciate the thought about an SAT retake but D is finished with the SAT (and there will be no SAT Subject Tests for her,either). She has found schools she loves where her scores place her in good stead for admissions and awards and she has flat refused to spend her time preparing for standardized tests (since she is already in the 99th %tile for females). She is retaking the ACT this weekend to cure a glaring anomaly and, but for that science score that kept her from a 33, she would have been finished after one there, also.
She will spend her extra time trying to craft applications that speak to each individual target school rather than the shotgun approach. She feels comfortable doing this only because she genuinely desires to attend a couple of schools where she has already received small awards, or has already qualified for major awards that are guaranteed for certain stats. Based on prior winners, the small awards can turn into major awards but no guarantee. That plus having an OOS Honor’s College where we can pay the full-freight frees her up to concentrate her efforts on what she considers most important in the process. Which appears at present to be sitting on her hands.
To those who wish to go the other way with this , a 1500 seems to be a “magic number” whether it be achieved in one sitting or several (and D knows this, still won’t budge), and no- a 1470 doesn’t seem to be “close enough”. There are exceptions to every rule, and I know of one very successful applicant who received very nice full -type awards with stats very similar to my D’s.
curmudgeon: There are, of course, always exceptions. And I also believe–as I said before-- that merit scholarship committees tend to look at the whole person, not just a bunch of stats. That said, I also suspect those stats are what, most likely, stand out in the initial culling. After that, much more is involved. I’m just saying that the stats that were posted earlier are close to what’s out there for those full ride scholarships. And don’t think for a minute that students with those stats aren’t competing also at what you refer to as “2nd tier” or even “3rd tier” schools that, you believe, will be a “sure bet.” Just my 2 cents.
But–yes–absolutely–she should do what’s comfortable and reasonable for her. And I agree completely that well crafted applications are extremely important.
jack, I appreciate the concern but trust me . When I say guaranteed I mean I have the piece of paper saying “you are hereby awarded” from two of the schools for Junior year awards. The other is a $15k scholarship for Valedictorians/Salutatorians over certain SAT scores which she beats by a mile that has also been verified in writing for 2006. Of the other schools on her list? She knows they are a merit lottery for everybody, even if you are 100 points above their 75th on the SAT . If she doesn’t get them, she just won’t go. She knows that. Truth be known, she’s probably happy just applying to the safeties as her constant refrain is “You know. I still may prefer X (lower ranked) over Y, even if Y comes in close in $”.
I believe there is more merit aid out there than you believe. Take a look at Tulane alone. Their freshman class is 1600 students. The top 35% is 560 students. The top 34% receive an average of $18K in tuition. Particularly for a student applying out of region, i.e. Case if you are from Texas.
With that said, the challenge is finding the right/best opportunities for each of future college students. I know that you are on the right path and I expect that you and your daughter will be pleasantly surprised when the acceptances and associated merit aid is handed out.
Yes, we don’t know any student around where we live–over the last couple of years–who applied to Tulane and did not receive a merit award. Seems like everybody we know who applied to Tulane received this standard award of $22,000. They must have tons of money.
jack, you sound miffed. What’s that about? We are all just trying to get by. LOL. I certainly didn’t intend that you be offended and didn’t take offense when you suggested that I hadn’t researched the stats at the 2nd or third tier schools that have caught my daughter’s eye. I do apologize for whatever rubbed you the wrong way.
BTW, I don’t think I said the words “sure bet”, but if I did I mis-spoke. “Sure-bet” is a non-sequitor. If there is a bet, it can’t be sure. Some element of chance must be present, mustn’t it? If not why would anyone take the bet? And as to your area where everyone get’s $22k , last year a top ten % 1470 from our school got zero from Tulane and chose to attend. Neighborhoods must be different. (Of course she was an 800 ,670). Tulane is among the most widely generous. Most are not. See Emory above.
curmudgeon: Not miffed at all. Just seems like you have it all managed, so not much point in–well–belaboring the point. Sounds like your daughter has good options and seems content with those…so, as I said before, all the best. She’ll obviously be fine.
And I didn’t mean to imply that you had not done your homework. I’ve been reading your posts with interest for many months now, so I knew you’d done your research. I did not realize she had already received letters guaranteeing support, however, at schools she would like to attend. Knowing that, what’s with the continuing angst? Seems like a lot of unnecessary worry to me.
Also, maybe you didn’t use the term, “sure bet.” Here’s what you did say:
“For financial safeties she has had to drop down to lower second tier, and third tier to provide guarantees of merit aid sufficient to attend.”
So I don’t know…I guess I read that as “sure bet.” Sorry.
With regard to Tulane: All those kids we know who got money from there–not one attended. Maybe the money seemed too easy(?). Don’t know, but–yes–they seem to have a lot of money to spare, unlike many other schools.
jack, unfortunately for them (Tulane), I think their climb to national prominence has hit one helluva roadblock.
I’m glad that I mis-read your post. Darling D’s “reluctance” (obstinance, recalcitrance) is her own, as is this process. If I was driving the bus it would be done quite differently. I spend my time (which is less now than in the initial stages of list making) trying to figure out the next zig or zag and remove or at least point out the obstacles before she hits them. It is trying but I guess I really wouldn’t have her be any other way. She is most certainly not a marionette.
As for the continuing angst, her reachy merit choices are among the most difficult to get awards from and it is those schools she is spending her time on, while not ignoring her others (she has visited and keeps in touch regularly). Both are tier one , top 30 schools, whose major scholarships are not entirely stat driven and she has been invited to apply for their major awards by admissions, and has an ally in the coach of her sport (for what little that is worth). At another, nominated students for the premier award receive some merit award 87% of the time. While far from sure bets, they are at least “possible”.
curmudgeon: As I said a couple of times before, I don’t think many of those major merit scholarships are “entirely stat driven,” though I think those outstanding stats definitely put you in the (initial) running. At any rate, I look forward to reading about her options, choices, and ultimate awards(!) in the spring. Thanks.
Couple of questions. . .someone mentioned that 1500 on SAts seems to be the magic number, what is the magic number for the new Sats that have a total of 2400 possible?
Curmedgeon, what awards did your D get while a jr in high school and what schools are you and your D considering? Obviously you have done a lot of research already – am I too late in the ball game since my d is already a Sr?
GC is a guidance counselor, you are too late for junior awards (but right on time for everything else), the junior awards I know about are from Wells College, Centre College, RPI, and Furman. There may also be one at Presbyterian in South Carolina.They range from $4,5,6/yr to $15/year. Significant at Wells , Centre, and RPI but just nice at Furman.
D will apply to Bowdoin . (Her one need only school. Waiting for a miracle. She deserves to dream. LOL.) Scripps and Hamilton, who have very, very limited merit possibilities. Centre, Rhodes, and Hanover Colleges who can be very generous to students they want and who want them. D will also apply to a large instate, Texas Tech, which presents a potentially wonderful possibility and a nice Honor’s College , and she gets an automatic scholarship for $4k a year, plus auto first year tuition waiver. And to the Barksdale Honors College at Ole Miss where she should receive a $2k/yr OOS tuition waiver off a very reasonable sticker price .She will be competitive for one of a very few $6k/yr scholarships.
She will also apply to one or two more that I don’t care to jinx at the moment as she is wavering but I have my fingers crossed that she will come through.
P.S. Don’t pay a lot of attention to my magic number of 1500. It just seems from what I am finding that an inordinate number of kids receiving major merit awards had SAT scores that start with a 1 and a 5. New SAT number? I’d have to guess 2250 for those schools who are treating the writing as a full-fledged section. But most are saying they won’t.
Not sure there is an answer to that, as yet, since this is the first year for the “new” and schools have announced varying approaches to using the new (and some haven’t announced what they are doing). Some are not using the new Writing component score, just kind of “looking at it”, some say they won’t even look at it, etc. Also, the math and verbal components are both changed in content, so there isn’t any history for the schools to go on. Ergo, it’s a guessing game, but I’d expect that 1500 on the Critical Reading and Math would have to be the “magic” for now, or 2250 on the combined as the rough equivalent of the old 1500.
Someone mentioned Baylor had good merit aid, and when I went to their web site today and punched in my daughter’s numbers of 1490 Sat, ranked 4 in class of 540, probable National merit scholar (she is a NMSF now, and will probably be notified that she is NMF this spring) --the answer came back that she would get full tuition for 4 years if she put Baylor as her top choice for NM school program.
Is that a come-on? Or would D get that as long as her stats are verified.
How does one find out what other LACs and univ are NM schools? My train of thought right now is that if d is not interested in other schools that are NM schools, she might as well put Baylor as her top NMschool and be assured that she can get full tuition at Baylor.
I did not know much abut Baylor before, besides that it had a medical school, was fairly conservative and was located in Texas. Am starting to research the school more now that I discovered that she might be able to get substantial merit aid there.
I assume Baylor would be strong in science/math if they have a med school?
If you are seriously interested in Baylor, give them a call. That would show interest & lots of schools WANT interest, especially in highly qualified applicants, like your child.
There are several schools which do give full tuition to NMFs & some that give pretty good merit offers to NMSFs as well. Good luck to you & your daughter in figuring all of this out. Her GC should also be able to help guide you some in which schools give good merit aid.
but even a history major knows that it “sucks”.