Schools like Haverford

<p>Since DS1’s college search is winding down, we decided to spend some of Spring Break visiting schools for DS2. He is an A- CTY kid who likes philosophy, politics, debate and model UN, basically a proud social sciences nerd.</p>

<p>He is looking for a small to medium liberal arts school with serious academics but not a cut throat atmosphere. He loved Haverford and did not like Swarthmore. At Haverford he liked the atmosphere, the honor code and the quirky traditions. At Swarthmore he felt out of place and thought that academics might be too intense and too competitive.</p>

<p>I am trying to put together a list of schools for him to investigate with a focus on safeties and matches (I know Haverford is a reach, he also visited Ursinus and did not see himself there). So far I have thought of St. Mary’s (MD), Macalester and Grinell.
I asked the admissions person at Haverford to recommend a school with the feel of Haverford but less of a reach school and she said Muhlenberg College so we will investigate that. He also does not like warm weather and generally prefers rainy and overcast – so maybe a school in the Northwest. Looking for other suggestions. Thanks.</p>

<p>Check out these two groups of LACs, which include schools less selective than Haverford:
[CTCL</a> Members | Colleges That Change Lives](<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/list]CTCL”>http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/list)
[ACM</a> Associated Colleges of the Midwest](<a href=“http://www.acm.edu/index.html]ACM”>Associated Colleges of the Midwest)</p>

<p>In the Pacific Northwest, check out:
Reed (maybe a bit more like Swarthmore than Haverford)
Whitman (not in the rainy/overcast part of the PNL, but not hot)
Lewis & Clark</p>

<p>muhlenberg is a 100% match (IMO)
hendrix college maybe of interest too.</p>

<p>Willamette in Salem, Oregon might be a possibility. It’s right across from the state capitol (literally across the street) and is significantly less selective than even Muhlenberg. UPS might be another match.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the ideas. One thing that surprised me about Haverford is that they do not have any RAs because of the Honor Code. Are they any other schools like this?</p>

<p>I went to school in the stone ages that had the first honor code in the country and I thought we took it seriously but we had RAs.</p>

<p>Try Oberlin and Kenyon. Ohio is cold and overcast. They are also great schools.</p>

<p>I would add college of wooster</p>

<p>Even Washington & Lee (a school with a rigidly enforced honor code) has RAs. The only schools that come to mind as having not only a well respected honor code, but also no RAs, or their equivalent are the military academies.</p>

<p>Oberlin has an honor code, but (unlike Haverford) doesn’t make a bit deal about it. Grinnell takes it a step further and has student self-governing.</p>

<p>Oberlin, Mac, Kenyon and Grinnell are all wonderful places, but not a whole different order of admissions stats/requirements than H’ford. My college freshman son did overnights at several of those so we has researched them pretty well. </p>

<p>We are in the midwest, so are most familiar with schools within about 6 hours from us – College of Wooster gets rave reviews, as does Earlham which is Quaker. Although we didn’t look at them, places like Knox College, Cornell College (Iowa, not NY), Kalamazoo, Hendrix, Beloit are all small, quirky LACs. </p>

<p>Back east, we hear good things about Dickinson in PA and also Holy Cross in MA. </p>

<p>Good luck with the search!</p>

<p>Why wouldn’t you need RA’s just because you have an honor code? Back in my college days, our RA’s did all sorts of things. They ran “get to know you” events for the Freshmen, and facilitated problem solving between roommates, and talked you through what to do when you thought you had appendicitis but it turned out to be indigestion. I never got in trouble or did something that would violate an honor code, but I certainly benefited from having an RA.</p>

<p>The closest my son found to Haverford was Rhodes, but that doesn’t meet your weather requirements.</p>

<p>I third Muhlenberg!</p>

<p>Dickinson “looks” very different as it has roads going thru campus. If your son liked the enclosed, set off the street location of Haverford, he may not connect with the look of Dickinson.</p>

<p>Juniata was as “safe” as Haverford with leaving laptops/backpacks in common areas without worries. My son felt academically, the class he sat in on was on par with the class he attended at Haverford. Juniata fell short on the music dept and the rural location for my son.</p>

<p>My son also found Haverford one of the most diverse campus in terms of where the students came from. </p>

<p>Besides the honor code, what were some other aspects your son liked?</p>

<p>Agree re: Lewis & Clark, Earlham, Kalamazoo, Beloit. Connecticut College? Possibly Goucher, though it does get warm there.</p>

<p>Dickinson - DS spends 3 wks every summer there at CTY, which he loves. He hates that they can only cross the street at one place and only with a crossing guard, but I’m sure that is not an isue for the college students. Since the teachers and kids r totally different over the summer we’ll have to go back and visit during the year. Carlisle doesn’t seem to have a lot to offer, aside from maybe internships at the War College.</p>

<p>Longhaul He really liked the students, the non competive yet intellectual vibe at Haverford. He was excited about all the study abroad/help the world options. I think he found the campus beautiful. He liked that profs lived on campus. He also wants a diverse student body.</p>

<p>Sent from my SPH-D700 using CC</p>

<p>If your S has an A- average and had the SATs to qualify for CTY, it isn’t clear to me why you think Haverford is a reach.</p>

<p>Consolation - I can’t speak for the OP, but my 3.64 UW, ACT 34 kid was waitlisted at Haverford. I think when you get acceptance rates at <25%, you have to consider it a reach no matter what the stats are.</p>

<p>OP</p>

<p>My son felt the student type at the Claremonts similar to Haverford, but the Acceptance Rates are just as low (or lower). If he can handle the sunny weather, Pitzer and Pomona may be worth a look.</p>

<p>Though he did not apply, son also liked:
Lewis & Clark
U of Puget Sound
Oberlin (same type of AR as Haverford)
Sewanee (very remote)</p>

<p>Haverford has very good FA and is one of the few schools that I would have hesitated if my kid wanted to go ED. If your son is set on it, ED would be worthwhile.</p>

<p>I kept notes as we went thru the process. If I can find the early notes then I will pm you some of the other schools he researched and listed as similar (Yes, I made him take some crazy notes).</p>

<p>@Curious Jane - Haverford DOES have upper classmen live on Freshmen halls to perform the social aspects of the RA that you described. It is called “Customs People”</p>

<p>My D1 attends Haverford. One of her safeties was Earlham which she felt has a similar quirky intellectual but not-competitive vibe (and like Haverford, Quaker roots), and somewhat easier admissions standards. You need to be carefyl with financial aid at Earlham, however; they can be quite generous with merit aid, but they don’t meet 100% of need, so it’s not for everyone.</p>

<p>I’m not sure the “Customs People” at Haverford are all that different from RAs in some respects, but they have a different name to emphasize that the relationship is non-hierarchical. Customs People are there in a non-supervisory capacity but as an upperclass resource to help orient incoming students and to be a place students can go to get information and advice. The emphasis is overwhelmingly on Haverford being a self-governing community of equals, committed to living together with equal dignity, integrity, trust, and mutual respect. In that spirit the Honor Code isn’t something imposed or enforced by the College; it’s a set of guidelines or principles drawn up and ratified each year by the assembled students (and frequently amended, again entirely on a student-initiated and student-decided basis), and it’s entirely student-administered. </p>

<p>To that extent the comment by a previous poster that Grinnell “goes beyond” an Honor Code by establishing “student self-governance” is perhaps a bit misleading. I can’t imagine a college or university that has gone farther down the road of student self-governance than Haverford. Its Honor Code is a major instrument of student self-governance, but beyond having sole authority to develop, ratify, amend, and administer the Honor Code, Haverford students also have sole discretion to allocate the College’s student activities budget, and students sit on all major College committees, including faculty hiring committees. Because by Quaker tradition decisions are made by consensus, that makes the student voice a uniquely powerful one.</p>

<p>You have received some great ideas!</p>

<p>DS applied to Haverford, Oberlin, Kenyon, Macaelester and Grinnell. </p>

<p>It was tricky trying to find safeties with the same vibe. We did Dickinson, Denison, College of Wooster, Goucher and Juniata. Dickinson and Denison are definitely preppy and fratty. Ds would not have been happy there.</p>

<p>We did visit Muhlenberg. While it would have been a good safety, he couldn’t stand the tour guide. Sigh. </p>

<p>And FWIW, ds is a freshman at Oberlin and extremely happy. It was his first choice and it is the PERFECT fit for him.</p>

<p>Consolation - I agree with Longhaul that Haverford is a reach for any student with the acceptance rate. Also, DS works hard for his grades and the low As could easily become Bs junior year when he takes more APs. Also he only qualified for CTY with his CR scores, math will be lower. Lastly, we won’t qualify for financial aid even with 2 in colleges so merit aid would be nice.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for the great ideas. I think he would be open about the weather piece for the right school. After all we live in Maryland so he can survive hot and humid summers.</p>

<p>Consolation - we had a lot of interest in Haverford. It’s a reach for anybody.</p>