<p>Actually, pyles, I've known quite a few students who turned down Duke for Rice.</p>
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what are other schools like washu? im looking for a school strong in teh sciences, yet laid back...good campus...good food/dorms
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<p>OP, to get back to your question...</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University has many pre-med students, a great campus, brand new freshman dorms, enough dorms to house upperclassmen (unlike Wash. U), is academically rigorous but has a lot of social stuff going on within the campus walls, and like Wash U is home to a medical school, a law school, a graduate business school, along with several different undergraduate schools that students can easily transfer between. The weather in Nashville is better than St. Louis. In my opinion, both Wash U and Vanderbilt have good locations for undergraduates. Vanderbilt is not far from downtown Nashville, which is very lively. Wash. U is adjacent to a huge urban park with many activities, and not far from coffee shops and theaters, but downtown St. Louis is not likely to draw many students. I am originally from St. Louis, and my son attends Vanderbilt; that doesn't make me an expert on either school, but I think the two schools are more similar than most CC posters seem to think.</p>
<p>Emory University Eagles
Tufts University Jumbos
Northwestern University Wildcats
Georgetown University Hoyas
Vanderbilt University Commodores</p>
<p>These schools all have similar student bodies</p>
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Phead- those of us who have spent a lot of time on these forums and have been through one or more college searches with our kids are actually more qualified to help someone with a college search than most high school guidance counselors.
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<p>The methology behind USNews guidance counselor ranking states that they elicit responses from guidance counselors from the 1600 best high schools in the nation.</p>
<p>I'm sure thousands of parents have gone through the selection process are more qualified than most of the high school GCs out there. How does sending 2 ppl (namely your kids) to college and having a free CC account make you more qualified than the nation's best GC from the best HS's who send hundreds of kids to schools per year.</p>
<p>Oh I'm sure that they do. I think as a whole Rice is better than Duke but academically, I would say they are about the same. I could totally understand someone turning down Duke for Rice or even maybe (just maybe) Harvard to go to Rice</p>
<p>Phead, if you want to continue to be a USNews zombie to the exclusion of all else, go right ahead. You come across like a college age kid who thinks they know it all. And having been on CC for 4 years, like myself, MOWC and dozens of other CC contributors and learning where hundreds of CC students[ who for the most part are top students], not just our own kids, end up and why is of no value to you. Suit yourself.</p>
<p>Agree with Rice, Northwestern, and Tufts. Consider Duke, though it has a more Northern attitude (all those New Yorkers:)).</p>
<p>Phead128, Northwestern and WUSTL are absolutely peers of one another, and resemble one another in many ways in terms of overall culture and student body. Frankly the biggest differences are linked to the difference between Chicago and St. Louis, and a theater/music emphasis at NU vs an art emphasis at WUSTL.</p>
<p>If you paid attention to what a lot of posters on these forums have to say about their guidance counselors at their top high schools, you would understand my comment. Yes, there are good ones out there, but most don't have the time to really do the kind of research that parents can do- unless they spend a lot of time on this forum. I am frequently shocked at the advice students are getting from their guidance counselors. Private schools are a different matter- that's part of what you are paying for.</p>
<p>People's experience may be their own poison. Long term experience is often said to may reinforce old habitual ways of thinking. Experience is not necessarily good if you refuse to acknowledge new information or fear to recognize new ways of thinking.</p>
<p>Menloparkmom, I sound like what? Well, I guess your experience overrides the opinions of university presidents, provosts, deans, guidance counselors, and everyone else in the country. If you are so capable and intelligent, maybe you should start an independent private college search firm and name it as a competitor to CC forums. Maybe you can use your knowledge of the hundreds of CC profiles and put it to good use. Can you get me into Harvard MIT? I think not.</p>
<p>NU and WUSTL are not academic peers of each other... At least I have definitive proof within my disposable. I wouldn't go as low as to flaunt my experience and senior ship on the board just to assert that you are in an expert position to comment on this topic or not.</p>
<p>Phead, you repeatedly keep shooting down comments that NU and WashU are peers, or that Rice and WashU are peers. We get that you disagree with that. And you don't have "definitive proof" of anything. There's no right or wrong answer. It's all opinion. All you have are rankings that you use to support your argument, which is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.</p>
<p>So who are WashU's peers, in your opinion then? Stop beating around the bush. Let's see what schools you come up with.</p>
<p>Don't criticize what others say until you put forth a better answer.</p>
<p>Why would I want to fall into your trap of labeling schools as peers. I do not stoop to that low of level of stating each school's peers when it is not necessary and the truth is self evident. It is obvious who WashU's peers are...</p>
<p>I can beat my bush for as long as I please. No one can refuse my first amendment rights.</p>
<p>Edit: I meant beat around the bush.</p>
<p>Yeah, it's obvious that Rice and Northwestern are among WashU's peers. Disagree with that? Then provide your own answers of who its peers are. </p>
<p>Put up or shut up, seriously.</p>
<p>Ok. The burden of proof is on me to prove that they are not peers. Nothing more than that. Check post #9 for your complete answer.</p>
<p>To be honest, I do not have the latest USNews figures so I cannot answer that with a definitive answer. Last I remember, WashU's PA was a 4.1 while NU was atleast a 4.5, Rice a 4.3.</p>
<p>I'll give you a definitive answer when I find a copy of the newest USNews report. You can check them up online too, but it doesn't show the PA scores.</p>
<p>I see, so all you have to fall back on for evidence of the validity of your opinion is one [1] newsmagazine, that you can't quite put your hands on. riiiight.
And by the way, you are the one who pompously stated this :
"I do not consider Northwestern and Rice to be peers of WashU." as if someone had asked you personally.
so tell me why you are now making this statement-
"Why would I want to fall into your trap of labeling schools as peers"
You question others suggestions of similar schools, yet are unwilling or unable to come up with what you do consider to be the "peers" of Wash U. Lame.
Guess what. We did not have to hunt around to find an addition of USNews to quickly suggest SIMILAR colleges to Wash U for the OP, which is all he was asking for. Why? Because of years of experience. We knew, because we remembered all we had learned. But because you haven't read all that we have read, and we haven't published "a parents guide to getting your kid into the Ivy League " in order to make a profit, you disparage us. Students and parents come to CC because they want information and advise from those who have been through the college admissions process and the reputation of CC is they can get good, solid advise and information free. The unspoken informal motto of CC is "Knowledge is better shared, than hoarded". Sorry you don't believe that if someone doesn't charge for the things that learn know, they must not know what they are talking about. There are other ways of gaining credibility than by charging $$ for information. But if you want to continue to be a sap and think that if it isn't written down in a for profit newsmagazine then it isn't valid, then carry on.</p>
<p>and only a fool would believe a claim to be able to "get someone into Harvard or MIT"
that is not something you will find from a parent here on CC.
you'll have to go elsewhere to buy that kind of delusion.</p>
<p>You do realize that PA scores are not only just ONE aspect of quantitative measure but also largely based on both undergraduate and graduate offerings of a school? I presume the OP was asking about undergraduate experience, since s/he is not in college yet, and would most likely be first concerned with quality of undergraduate experience before considering graduate school and a college's particular graduate school reputation.</p>
<p>PA scores are only one way to judge schools, and even then, it doesn't put specifically undergraduate-focused institutions like WashU (though its got its big medical school fame as well) and Rice on an even footing with more pre-professional schools with a much larger graduate student population and presence. UT-Austin had a higher PA rank than Rice last year, was it? I'm not entirely sure, one of the past few years, or maybe even more. Anyways, PA scores are not a good way to judge quality of undergraduate experience when comparing Rice and UT, for example, because of the sheer differences in the size and nature of both institutions, not only in subjective undergraduate experience, but also in the big presence of graduate students and graduate schools at UT and the relatively much lower numbers of grad students at Rice. The same can be seen in the top yet big and graduate-focused publics including Cal, Wisconsin, Michigan, and UNC. PA scores in this instance are not very helpful in comparing undergraduate versus graduate focused institutions.</p>
<p>Also, on a more holistic view, Northwestern, Rice, and WashU are ALL in the top 20 schools in the country. Just because one school may have a PA rank of 4.2 (for example) and another school have a PA rank of 4.1, or even 4.0 (heaven forbid!), it doesn't mean that the school with a 4.2 PA rank should never ever be considered a peer of the school with a 4.0 PA rank. That is simply ridiculous.</p>
<p>Phead128, the answer to the question "what are similar schools to WashU" is a holistic answer, based on campus feel and composition of the student body. I don't have personal knowledge of Rice so I trust the many people who have said Rice. But I can tell you, NU is absolutely a similar school to WUSTL (or vice versa). I have lots of knowledge about both, having gone to NU and having lived in St. Louis. My guess is that you think WUSTL is a parvenu. Whatever.</p>
<p>I don't have the time or energy to peruse Phead's links, but I really would like to know what he considers to be WashU's peers. I am going by what I know about cross-applicants and what I have read on this forum over 4 years and have heard from students and parents I personally know. I am very familiar with Rice, pretty familiar with Northwestern but have not visited Wash U in a significant way. No 2 schools are exactly alike, of course. WashU has it's own law school- Rice does not. Rice has warm weather. WashU does not. Rice has D1 athletics. On and on. It's a matter of give and take and what is important to a particular applicant. These are all excellent schools and it is silly to say they are not peers.</p>
<p>I know many students who cross-apply to NU, Wash U, Rice and (as I mentioned above), Vanderbilt. For many of those kids, the biggest difference among them is that NU does not offer merit scholarships. That is probably a reflection of the fact that I know a lot of extremely strong students whose parents are not wealthy enough to pay full fare without pain, but do not qualify for need-based aid.</p>
<p>Two of my son's friends were headed for NU until they got into Wash U off the wait list. I guess they thought Wash U and NU were peers.</p>
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im looking for a school strong in teh sciences, yet laid back...good campus...good food/dorms
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Sounds like Emory to me. It's particularly strong in the biomedical sciences. Pretty campus, and the dorms are very nice (not sure about food). </p>
<p>You might want to consider some LACs as well. Pomona?</p>