<p>Does anyone know which schools allow Freshman to audition for their shows and which ones don't? That would definitely be a deciding factor for me so it would be great to find it all in one place rather than in the different college threads.</p>
<p>Sorry if this is posted elsewhere, but I swear I searched and didn't find a thing! ;)</p>
<p>I just want to pipe in if I may. I understand how it is very important to you guys to perform!! Truly I do. My own kid who just graduated from a BFA, was ALWAYS involved in a show from a very young age to the time she left for college, all year long. She was never not involved in a show growing up. However, she did not mind ONE BIT that she could not audition freshman year at her BFA program (which was NYU/Tisch). She said it was so busy and full, that it would be hard to fit in (and indeed it was in the subsequent three years of college when she was always in a show at college) and that she is glad her school had this policy now that she can look back on it and says she feels she learned a great deal of technique that she was able to apply to her performance work in shows the last three years and now can see the wisdom in the school’s policy. I recall a particular conversation with her last year (junior year) when she was the lead in the mainstage musical and she remarked afterward that she could never have acted the role as she did had she been allowed to do it in her freshmen year and that all the training had led her to the point of taking on that role there. I know from your vantage point as a high school student, that that is hard to realize but I’m sharing it with you.</p>
<p>And it was not as if she did not perform for those 8 months of her freshmen year! In her particular case, during that year, she was in a coed a capella group and was in many performances with them. She also was a pianist for The Full Monty at Tisch that year. They also perform IN CLASS a lot! There are final “demos” each semester in the studio at her program where they perform for everyone else too. She did not feel something was missing. Also, the summer prior to entering, she was in two musicals. The summer after freshman year, she was in musicals at summer stock theater. </p>
<p>Many BFA programs have such a policy of no productions for freshman year or one semester of freshman year or in the case of CMU, for two years. For schools that don’t have this policy, often freshmen aren’t necessarily cast much anyway. </p>
<p>In my opinion, while this seems very important to you NOW, you will see the wisdom in why many BFA programs do this (as my D came to realize in retrospect too). </p>
<p>I also believe that if you were to cut out all the BFA programs with this policy, you would be not only cutting out many of them, but you’d be unnecessarily cutting out some programs that may be a good fit for you. I would encourage you to include schools that restrict production work for freshmen and then once you see where you are accepted and if you have many acceptances, then be pickier about this one particular aspect of the school. It should be a more minor selection criteria compared to things like the curriculum and so on.</p>
<p>I totally understand all of that. It wouldn’t completely influence my decision and I’m definitely going to audition for schools such as NYU and CMU that have those policies, but I was curious and thought it might help in the final decisions (which are, thankfully, forever away). I’d always imagined freshman year would be busy so perhaps those restrictions are for the better!</p>
<p>Thanks for your imput!</p>
<p>Freshmen are welcome to audition at BoCo</p>
<p>Freshmen are required to audition at OCU and are regularly cast. Everybody is required to audition for musicals and operas and a lot of cross casting goes on between the MT and VP programs. The philosophy is that the more you audition the better you become at it.</p>
<p>Pace does, Webster doesn’t. </p>
<p>Personally, I totally agree with all the great points sooz made. Once you’ve auditioned and been accepted to some programs you might or you might not feel differently about the importance of first year audition opportunities in your decision process. I agree, cast a wider net until you’re more sure about what’s best for your ultimate progress. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>CCM requires all MT students to audition for their shows. You can request to not be cast in a particular show, but still need to audition. Freshmen are cast in at least one show.</p>
<p>Every year will be busy and full if you select and are selected by an MT school. The reasons for a school’s policies may go beyond what is discussed here. Audition where you think you might want to go, then weigh the choices when the letters come in.</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
<p>Off the top of my head, freshmen can’t audition at Tisch or Syracuse. </p>
<p>First semester freshmen can’t audition at U of Michigan. </p>
<p>Freshmen and sophomores can’t audition at CMU. </p>
<p>So, there are some of the very well regarded MT programs and it would be a shame if you like them, to knock 'em out for this reason before you even see which schools admit you.</p>
<p>Seat filler…what reasons can you think of for this policy that are not being discussed here? To my knowledge, the colleges with this policy often prefer that the students get some of their college level training under their belt before applying it to the college production work. Another reason is that the BFA programs are so demanding and freshmen have a chance to adjust to the demands of the program before adding many hours of rehearsal time to their college schedule. Another reason often cited is for the freshmen class to gel without any sense of competition before introducing casting. </p>
<p>Someone mentioned the value of audition experiences themselves. The more you audition the better you are at auditioning. I agree with that generally speaking!!! I don’t think not doing college production auditions for 8 months will be a detriment in that regard (and actually many colleges hold auditions in spring for the following fall). As well, demos/evals/juries (called different things at different schools) are a lot like an audition too. Everyone enters college with a different background. Speaking for my own kid, I think she had auditioned at every level of auditioning at least 65 times prior to college. She hasn’t been hurt by no auditions freshmen year (Actually during frosh year, she had to audition for a very competitive a capella group and also did Straw Hats and other summer stock auditions in spring of freshmen year). She fared well in casting after freshmen year and has been cast professionally (Equity) in one of her first auditions just one week after graduating college. I don’t think not auditioning freshmen year worked against her growth in this manner.</p>
<p>soozievt… there is financial math involved; a school can apply a different admissions to role ratio, admitting more students or putting on fewer shows if they preclude freshmen from auditioning, regardless of their spin. Respectfully, the question wasn’t about your daughter; I’m sure she didn’t miss a beat after her at least 65 prior auditions. That may not be the case for the op.</p>
<p>From what I can tell, I don’t notice a difference with fewer shows put on by programs that don’t allow freshmen to audition. Even at many schools where freshmen can audition, few are cast (there are likely exceptions). I truly don’t believe the reasoning behind no freshmen auditions is so they can have MORE students but put on fewer shows. I truly believe there are EDUCATIONAL reasons behind this policy. Also, look at CMU…they don’t allow auditions for TWO years and they surely don’t admit a lot of students…it is a small program. And what about UMich that simply allows no auditions for fall of freshmen year? It can’t affect the numbers they admitted or the number of shows put on! I think they want the students to get adjusted without the additional demands of rehearsals on top of the rigorous BFA schedule and also to get some training under their belt before applying it to performance work. At Tisch, there are about 100 productions of various types per year. So, I don’t think that is the rationale. As I wrote earlier, when my kid had to do a demanding role in her junior year, she reflected that she would not have been ready for that role as a freshman and she is so understanding of why it was important to get that training first before applying it to the college level production. It is not as if she could not perform without the BFA training because obviously she did before she entered but the BFA coursework took her to new heights that she could use for the production work. It all made sense to her. I hardly think not performing in a full scale production for 8 months or not doing a handful of auditions is going to be detrimental. There was PLENTY of performance experience in the program itself and also mock audition type experiences too. Many programs want the student to work up to the college level production and not just do it right out of HS. </p>
<p>In any case, I can see a HS kid thinking, “how will I survive without being in a show for 8 months?” and I just wanted to say that having observed my own child who always was involved in a show prior to college, she not only survived it, she was not bothered by it as her program was very involving and performance was a part of it and there was summer stock auditions too. It is hard for a HS kid to imagine this and so I thought I would give an inside look of what it is like once you get there. It is also hard to juggle the BFA load and the rehearsals that go to 11 and all weekend and so easing one’s way into all that can be good. I mean look at schools with cuts that allow freshmen to do shows…perhaps some kids are having difficulty as it was too much all at once to balance as soon as they hit a BFA college program. Just another thing to consider. It is also nice to bond with the freshmen class when nobody is competing for casting before that kicks in.</p>
<p>Sigh, the math works, whether you are talking about a number of productions, or a number of students. 1 semester =7/8ths of the college experience, and precluding potential casting expectations for one semester reduces the necessary production calendar by an eighth, or conversely allows a larger student body. I do understand that there are different plausible reasons given for policy rationale at different schools. </p>
<p>I now realize this site is used as a forum for parochial promotion and unyielding debate couched in advice. The last word is, as always yours; I will no longer be posting here.</p>
<p>It is a discussion where each person is putting out their point of view. All points of view are welcome but simply differ. Those who ask the original question, can read the various points of view or personal experiences and take from it what they wish. One point of view is not more “right”. </p>
<p>If you think the production calendar is reduced because freshmen don’t audition, I don’t notice less productions at schools that have this policy than schools that don’t. That is what I am saying. But you believe this is the reason for this policy and that’s fine. I am also providing reasons that the colleges actually SAY are the reason and their rationale makes educational sense and I shared how it made sense for my kid who has now done four years of a BFA and can look back and reflect on that the policy of no shows in freshmen year was a positive which she may not have thought as much back as a high school student. Others may feel differently.</p>
<p>If one eliminates colleges that have this policy, they may knock out a lot of schools and in fact, ones that they may truly like in all other respects that will fit them well and it would be a shame to knock it out for this reason before applying and seeing what college options they are given. For instance, they may get into a college that allows freshmen to perform but has no showcase or has cuts or something else that doesn’t appeal to them. The student will have to weigh their college options and put pros and cons down for each one and see which one aligns closest to their ideal selection criteria. I think eliminating schools with the no freshmen in shows policy before applying, which in the end won’t truly be a negative as much as a high school student thinks it will be, might be unfortunate.</p>
<p>By the way, are you sure all freshmen at CCM in MT are cast in one of the regular mainstage musicals or are you counting the Freshmen Showcase which the entire freshmen class puts on? Just wanted to understand it.</p>
<p>It would seem to me Seat filler that the rationale you postulate is highly speculative and is grounded in the belief that schools with a no audition policy for freshmen have a hidden agenda related to finances that serves as the basis for the policy. I would be curious to know what experience has occurred with you or your kid or what source of information you have that leads you to the conclusion that schools with a “no audition policy” for freshmen are driven by the desire to inflate the size of the freshman class or to achieve savings by reducing the number of productions?</p>
<p>In this regard, it is noteworthy that many schools with the “no audition” policy are schools that do not have any type of “cut policy”. They do not inflate the size of the freshman class in anticipation of cutting students or of significant attrition. Further, the number of classrooms/studios, the number of professors/instructors and desired class size to permit individualized attention would seem to be far more significant and fiscally relevant factors to overall admissions policies than the number of shows to be mounted. In addition, schools with the “no audition” policy could just as easily allow freshmen to audition and simply not cast them, with all those involved simply concluding that more experienced students, with more training in the technique and skills reflected by the educational program, were awarded the roles over freshmen who were new to the the program. And there is no discernible basis to conclude that the “no audition” policy is a smokescreen to limit the number of productions. Most BFA programs have pretty full production schedules - both full blown main stage and less elaborate black box - and having a potential pool of 20 or so more actors and the “cost” of accommodating them with additional productions (such as black boxes) is frankly insignificant when compared to the limitations imposed by the number of stages available and the time it takes to mount productions. There is no need to use a “no audition policy” as a smoke screen to limit productions due to finances when there are far more compelling logistical reasons that a school relies upon in determining the number of productions each semester. There is no need for a school to use a “no audition” policy as a subterfuge for anything nor is there a compelling reason presented to view a “no audition” policy as anything more than what the school says it is - a reflection of the school’s educational philosophy that includes the concepts that first semester freshman should have the time to get acclimated to the demands of a BFA program and have a least a semester under their belts to break down old habits and start to develop new technique that is consistent with the structure and pedagogy of the school’s performance program. </p>
<p>As to the OP’s question, University of the Arts invites 1st semester freshmen to audition for openings that occur in fall shows and for student productions. Starting with the early winter auditions for the spring semester shows, freshmen are required to audition.</p>
<p>Indiana University Bloomington BFAs are allowed to audition and I believe they may be required to audition and yes Freshmen do get cast.</p>
<p>It is both a philosophical and financial difference and neither is right or wrong, neither is better or worse, it’s just different. Are some colleges losing some kids because they don’t allow auditions - absolutely. Do some kids prefer not feeling the competition or pressure of auditioning on top of everything else happening as a freshman - absolutely. Are there still plenty of very qualified applicants for each and every MT college program - absolutely.</p>
<p>The original poster is just looking for information on those schools that do not allow freshman auditions as part of their beginning phase of researching MT college programs.</p>
<p>amtc, while the OP was looking for which schools allow freshmen to be in productions or which don’t, I think it is important to point out some issues as to how important this will be (or not) once in college and also to understand the rationale behind it. In my work with prospective students, almost all say they want no restrictions on auditioning freshman year and I totally understand why a HS kid would say this. So, I gave them some additional perspective to weigh and whether to use this policy to select schools or not, and then some anecdote of what someone who went through a BFA thought of such a policy in retrospect at the other end (not as an applicant). Just all things to consider that a HS kid might not. </p>
<p>I don’t agree that the reason for not letting freshmen audition is financial in basis and it is speculation whereas the other reasons are reasons that colleges actually will tell you. I just don’t see evidence of it in the number of productions between schools of similar size but who have a different freshmen policy, but surely it is a point of view that some may hold. </p>
<p>When one gets into the idea of taking MORE students than the school can “service” so to speak, that actually is a point when one discusses cut programs. When CCM had a cut policy, for example, they took in more freshmen than they planned to graduate. DePaul does that too. </p>
<p>In any case, I think colleges have educational reasons for this and I have to trust that they know what they are doing when training students. As I said, my own kid in retrospect looked back and realized there was wisdom in the policy when it came to getting some training before doing the college productions, as well as adjusting to the demands of the BFA program. And I want prospective students to know that like them, my kid was used to doing productions all the time but really never complained about not being in one for 8 months of her life (freshman year) when she was in them right before freshmen year and immediately following it those summers, and performed in OTHER capacities freshmen year both in class and outside of class. The end of semester demos/evals/juries are also like auditions and so that provides yet another audition experience. As well, many fall shows were cast in the spring and so freshmen auditioned then. Many students do Straw Hats in freshmen year or other summer stock auditions and that provides audition experience as well during that one 8 month period of their life. </p>
<p>I think doing shows freshmen year is fine and great actually. I am SURELY not against that idea!! But I don’t think applicants truly understand the rationale behind freshmen production restrictions or what it really will be like and assume there is no way they want to go without being in a full blown musical during freshmen year (I see this in my work and that is why I bothered to comment…kids have not really weighed the situation fully and want to knock out a slew of very good schools on this basis only). They also need to realize that at SOME schools where frosh can audition, few are cast and so not to get their hopes up too much that even if the policy is to their liking that they will actually be in a full musical freshmen year. These are simply all the things to weigh that a typical high school applicant may not be aware of. </p>
<p>Again, one point of view is not better or more right. But different points of view are good to put out there, as well as experiences in programs with various policies.</p>
<p>^^
amtc - you’re right! I’m the OP’s mother and this is just one (small) part of all the research she is dong. We absolutely agree with everyone who says cast a wide net. There are 29 schools on her list right now…some she has already applied to academically and knows she will audition for and others she is just learning about. Whether or not freshmen can audition is just something she is curious about - I’m not sure she is even sure which side of the yes/no equation she falls on at this point. That’s why this is such a great resource in terms of hearing not only what the schools’ policies are but also what other’s actual experiences have been as freshmen in these programs.</p>
<p>Thanks to all who are responding and sharing their insight!</p>
<p>On the point that some kids “prefer not feeling the competition or pressure of auditioning on top of everything else happening as a freshman” is not so much what I meant when I mentioned the competition issue. I don’t think my kid would have minded it at all and would have been fine with auditions for productions freshmen year (and applied to and was admitted to schools that allow it after all). But it is the PROGRAMS themselves who educationally have chosen to not introduce this for freshmen and SOME programs have mentioned not wanting to foster competition but having their freshmen bond as a group first. So, the schools have this educational goal more than the kids saying “I don’t want to compete freshmen year!” It is more the college’s rationale, than the kids’ is what I mean.</p>
<p>My D felt like most applicants and would have loved to do shows freshmen year and that is why I shared her comments as someone who has already been through a BFA program because AFTER the fact, she now sees much wisdom in the no freshmen shows policy in terms of getting some training under her belt that she used in her college production work, how the freshmen schedule went (by the way, at many schools such as hers, freshmen have crew assignments at night) and saw how the kids bonded freshmen year without this element. Could she have seen that as an applicant? No! That’s why I am pointing it out!</p>